In episode 39 of The Real Talk, Raquel Ramirez interviews Jon Bragman, a gemologist and estate buyer, as they delve into the world of gemstones, jewelry appraisals, and the intricacies of the estate-buying business. Jon shares valuable insights on the importance of appraisals, the impact of lab-grown diamonds on the market, and the significance of proper jewelry valuation.
Tune in to discover the secrets behind jewelry appraisals, insurance considerations, and the hidden stories within the world of gemstones.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:03:13] Buying Jewelry in Imperfect Condition.
[00:06:33] Safety in Home Visits.
[00:08:20] Dividing Assets During Divorce.
[00:14:27] Lab-Grown Diamonds Affecting Value.
[00:15:26] Lab-Grown Diamonds in Jewelry.
[00:21:51] Buying Jewelry from a Reputable Source.
[00:24:48] Buying Engagement Ring Stones Separately.
[00:28:23] Diamond Cutting Styles.
[00:33:29] The Value of Diamonds
[00:36:22] Keeping Up with Jewelry Value.
[00:39:33] Inherited Jewelry Evaluation Advice.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Raquel Ramirez
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-ramirez/
Jon Bragman
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonbragmaninc/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100049451725701
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-bragman-022a466/
WEBSITES:
The Real Talk: https://www.therealtalkpodcast.net/
Featured Properties International: https://msha.ke/featuredre
Jon Bragman, Inc.: https://www.jonbragmaninc.com/
Welcome to The Real Talk. I'm Raquel Ramirez, your host and real estate professional here to bring you insightful conversations, expert advice, and powerful stories about what really goes on in life, love, divorce, and real estate. Are you ready? Let's get real. Hello and welcome to The Real Talk podcast. How are you doing today, John?
Raquel Ramirez
I am fantastic. And how are you?
Jon Bragman
I'm doing very well. Thank you so much for asking. Thanks so much for joining me today. For those of you who are tuning in today, I am speaking to John Bragman. He is a friend, a fellow networker, and more importantly, he's a gemologist and an estate buyer, which is really, really interesting. I've never had anybody like you, especially you. on the show before. So I'm really looking forward to our conversation. So to get started, I thought it would be a good idea for you to tell us a little bit about what you do, what is a gemologist, and how you, I guess, thrive in the estate buying business.
Raquel Ramirez
Sure. So a gemologist is someone who is technically trained in being able to look at diamonds, emeralds, rubies, sapphires, all kinds of stones. tell you not only are they genuine, are they real, are they lab-created, they also tell you the quality of what they are, where they're from, and all that kind of stuff. There is a technical training and tests that you have to take, and there are different degrees of gemologists and all that kind of stuff. So we do diamonds and colored stones. That's the technical side, but that doesn't have anything to do with knowing what something is worth. Ah, there's the technical side and there's the real world side. So the real world side is really what the estate buying comes under because it's what we do. We buy and sell jewelry every day. And it's when we say estate doesn't mean it has to be old. It just means previously owned. It could be current, it could be stuff from a divorce, could be a bankruptcy, could be jewelry that somebody inherits, could be stuff you're just tired of, you want to trade it in, you don't like it anymore, or it's broken, it's damaged. Any reason someone wants to sell it, it's what we do. But we also do lots of appraisals, which can be for if people want to insure their jewelry, if they want to make sure that what they purchased is really what they got, right? Did they get what they purchased? We can verify it. If you're dealing with death, divorce, or bankruptcy, the courts require an appraisal to put values on things. That's what we do. And if people wanna sell it and really wanna know what it's worth, we do that too.
Well, you mentioned something that I actually hadn't considered. So I guess in my mind, I always figured that if you wanted to sell a piece of jewelry, right, that it should be in good condition or at least in close to perfect condition. But you said that you actually buy jewelry that is, I guess, in not perfect condition, meaning it maybe has a clasp that's broken, a missing diamond, something like that. Is that what you're referring to?
A lot of times, yeah. Sometimes it costs more money to get something fixed than what it's worth. Right. The reason is gold is so high today. Is it really? As compared to what it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, that the cost of repairs is extremely high and the cost of labor. Sometimes it's cheaper, like if you have a bangle brace and you bend it, A, you're not gonna be able to straighten it. And what are you gonna do with it? Keep staring at it. So you would buy something like that? Yeah, because it still has a value. There's still value in broken jewelry. Right. And worn out jewelry. There's gold, there are the stones, there's all the different things that are in it. And sometimes pieces can be remade and repurposed only using parts of it, not even the whole thing.
Well, I'm assuming you could probably melt some of that gold, right, and create something new?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Interesting. Well, yeah, I could see how that might come in handy when you're talking about the appraisal side of things. Like if you wanted like as a person, if you wanted to have, say, a piece of jewelry appraised and you have maybe two broken pieces of jewelry, maybe they're the same carat or the same weight or whatever it is that you call. And I'll ask you about that now. You might be able to, I guess, melt that and create a whole new piece. You know, if you wanted, you could probably take it to where would you take that, I guess, to like a normal jeweler in that case or?
Where would I take it? It's a secret.
Ah, I don't know where you go, john.
Yeah, I'm not telling you where I go. You come to me or I actually I go to you. I make it even better. I tell people I don't want people bringing jewelry to a strange place. I'd rather have a strange person come to them with meaning. Well, you think about, you know, people ask me, you know, that question, like, why do I go to people? I said, Well, Anytime you walk into a jewelry store, who's to say there's not somebody outside watching you go in? I agree. Waiting for you to come out. Yeah. If I'm coming to you, well. Yeah. What's going to happen? Right. Nothing. Right. It's a whole different way. You're the one risking. Yeah. I'm the one risking. But if I'm not walking in with anything. True. You know, it's it's it's it's much safer.
Yeah. Well, actually you reminded me of something. I have a past client who owns a small jewelry store. It's actually in the Miller Heights area. And she's always been very, very, very conscious about safety. She's got obviously, you know, you've got like the double entry, like in most jewelry stores, they have cameras everywhere, but she has gotten to the point. And I think it's from past experience where she's seen things going around where she actually doesn't even keep jewelry on the floor anymore, except from like, like to the back end of the jewelry store. She's like a long entryway and it's lined with like, you know, the crystal shelving or the glass shelving that, you know, you look through to see. All of that is empty at all times because she's so scared at this point for whatever issue she had that, yeah, she doesn't do it. And every time I go over, she was always asking me, be careful when you leave, look both ways, you know, make sure nobody's following you. And I can understand that. I mean, we're talking about valuable pieces of of items that could carry a lot of weight in terms of cash.
From personal experience, I can tell you I've been followed. That's why there's certain places I will not go to to see clients or to work or to even go to because the bad people are out there. All you gotta do is put on the news. Yeah, they're there and they're they're waiting for the opportunity. You know, you always read about people that got followed and robbed coming out of publics. Yeah. You never hear about them getting robbed going on in, do you? No. The way out. That's right. Bad guys sit and wait and watch. Yeah. It's not it's not rocket science.
No, no, it absolutely isn't. And that's actually a really good strategy. I like that. I didn't realize that you did some home visits. I may gather up whatever little assignments I've got for you to come and take a look.
You know, I would say 95% of the time I go directly to my clients for those reasons. Every now and then I'll have them say, no, we'd rather come to your office. Usually it's a woman going through a divorce and doesn't want a strange car parked in her driveway.
Right.
I get that. I understand that. Or it's a secret from a boyfriend or a girlfriend or whatever it was. That's fine. But I usually say, oh, so you want to make me go to my office? Wouldn't it be better for me to come to you?
Yeah. Actually, that's an interesting point you just brought up because I know that obviously in divorce cases, which is what I handle a lot of, every divorce is different. Things can get really sticky. There's a lot of awkward Awkwardness, a lot of awkward moments. And yeah, so I talked to the attorneys a lot about it. In addition to, you know, appraising the real estate, or in my case, creating like, you know, broker pricing opinions and things like that, there is, you know, when there is jewelry, we do require a full appraisal to make sure that everybody's divvying up exactly, you know, or let's call it, they're being equitable in their distribution. So yeah, how does that work with you? Like, would you?
Well, you know, there's another aspect of that, most people don't think about. So you're married and you get gifts, right? And you have them. And some people say when they get divorced, well, I'll keep mine and you keep yours. And, you know, we just go like that. Right. But 99% of all the women are still going to sell some of that jewelry sometime because they get angry every time they look at it.
Yeah.
But if they don't know what it's actually worth, they're going to get very upset again. Because if they think they're gonna get what it was appraised for, for the replacement value, which is what insurance companies ask for, and they go to sell it and they get offered significantly less, because of markups and I could go through all that stuff, they get very angry again. And it's much better to know upfront, when you're going through the divorce process, that that ring that was insured for $10,000 is worth $3,000 in real money, that that's what it's worth. It's not 10, it's three. And that happens a lot of the time. And some women say, well, you know, I'm putting the jewelry away. I'm going to save it for my daughter. So how are you going to pass on the bad karma to your daughter or son or the house that you fought to keep? All of a sudden you need the roof fixed. And you said, well, I'll sell some of this jewelry that I have. And you're not going to get what you think you're going to get. Somebody gets angry. and they get angry at the person trying to buy it, they get angry at the ex, they get angry. And I understand because you have expectations of getting something and you're not.
So that appraisal then, like, as you said, is really mostly for insurance reasons.
Yes. Like I said, there are two main kinds of values for appraisals. One is what we call the replacement value or insured value. What would it cost you to go and replace it? Like go buy it in a store or online or whatever you're going to get it. And that's really for insurance. But everything else, whether it's divorce or probate, bankruptcy, or you're gonna sell it, there's a thing called fair market value. And that technically means willing buyer, willing seller. It doesn't mean you're waiting for that one customer who absolutely has to have that one piece of jewelry like you did when you bought it, but someone who's in the business and constantly buying and selling what they're willing to pay for. And it's a huge difference. everything else based on it and you can't, unless you're in it and doing it, how would you know what to pay for something? It's different. It's a different thing.
I didn't realize there was such a big, I guess, discrepancy between one valley and the other. Huge.
And I could explain to you all how and why and how markup works, but it's the same thing as I see the blouse that you're wearing and you paid X number of dollars for it. Right. Now, if you want to sell it, what's it worth? Oh, practically nothing. Yeah. OK, well, then I bought it. Exactly. And I'm looking at, you know, your earrings. You paid something for them. They're going to be worth more than a dollar. Sure. There is a value to them again. So as much as people say there was a huge markup on jewelry. Yeah. But compared to what? Go buy a car. Don't even take it off the lot. Put your name on the title. How much did you lose? Yeah, it's incredible. In all businesses, there's a thing called markup and profit. It's the way of what makes the world go.
Interesting. Jewelry is one of those things. Yeah, this is a huge point. And it's actually an eye opener for me as well. Not that I'm looking to get a divorce or looking to sell my jewelry, any of that, any of that. But but yes, for people listening who may be considering that some people even don't have to go to divorce, but they are saving, as you say, certain pieces of jewelry either to pass them on or to hold them, thinking that they have some sort of value and they might be able to sell it in the future. you know, God forbid, for a rainy day and they think they're sitting on 10, 15, 20, $100,000 worth of jewelry, when in reality, it's a fraction of that. And so, as you say, when the time comes and they turn around to settle and they're like, wait, what? It's a 70% reduction or whatever, you know, it might be. And yeah, that's a rude awakening.
And the question people ask me all the time is, do I think gold is going to go up? Is silver going to go up? Is it a good investment? My answer is, if I could predict the future, I wouldn't be talking to you now. I'd be in Vegas. But let's look back in time. In the 60s, when Nixon was the president, gold was $35 an ounce, and he took us off the gold standard. So think about this, when your parents or grandparents were buying jewelry in the 50s and 60s, gold was $35 an ounce, and now it's over $2,000 an ounce. Oh, dear God. Is it worth more now than then? I'm gonna say yes.
It's a long-term investment.
Yeah, but now let's take a step back. Let's also look at what was the cost of everything else. A house back in the 50s, 15, 18, $19,000, right? And now that same house is how much? So I tell people, put everything into perspective. You gotta look at what relative numbers are. It may sound like it's gone way up, has it? Let's go back a couple of years ago and we talked about what was a dozen eggs, right? Last year was $9 and two years ago was $2 and now it's back to $4.
So things are all over the place.
And there is something going on in my industry right now, which is scary. It's the whole thing of the lab grown diamonds.
Oh my goodness, I heard about this.
So traditionally, you know, people think of what makes diamonds valuable, their rarity, their color, their clarity, you know, all that, all that fun stuff, but rarity. Now they're making them in a laboratory and the unlimited supply. So the rarity is gone.
Right. Does that decrease the, yeah, does that affect their value? Now, generally speaking, across the board, are diamonds devalued now?
Yes, absolutely. A hundred percent. Yes. And and certain target markets have made the prices drop so low. For example, Pandora is now selling their silver jewelry with lab grown diamonds. Now, think about that. Silver is twenty dollars an ounce and gold is two thousand dollars an ounce. and they're using lab-grown diamonds in their silver. So how valuable could they possibly be? I tell people, you gotta think carefully. And for many people who are on more of a limited budget, it may make more sense to buy a lab-grown diamond piece of jewelry, because it's gonna cost you a fraction, but it's worth zero when you walk out the door. So you have to remember that. It's worth zero when you walk out the door, But you've also limited your loss. So it's, you know, you go back and forth and back and forth.
You got to figure out what you want that piece of jewelry for, right? Is it an investment? Is it a statement piece? Or do you just want some shiny hanging off your wrist when you go out to dinner with your husband?
There you go. And different generations have different feelings as well, like the younger generations in this feeling of let's not destroy the earth. Let's use the lab grown stuff.
No blood diamonds. Right.
It's the same people that think the EV cars are good for the environment. Right. Not thinking about what the actual cost is to make them and what they're doing to the environment to make them. Correct. Instead of going to hydrogen powered cars. you know, is using nature. But again, you know, we don't want to go down all those paths of stuff. We're back to jewelry. Because I could certainly go off in tangents. But they've been making not only, you know, lab grown diamonds, they've been making colored stones, rubies, sapphires, emeralds.
I was just about to ask that. Then what is, I mean, are there any rare gemstones that still exist in the marketplace or is everything now?
Oh, no, no. There are definitely. And we have the equipment to test it, to know whether it's real. I mean, natural or lab grown. But they've been making synthetic rubies, emeralds, and sapphires since the late 1800s. So it's not something new. In fact, when they came out, they were more expensive because they were perfect. Then you started to figure out, well, how can you tell whether the technology changed? That's a big part of why I became a gemologist at a graduate gemologist. Because in the 60s and 70s, that was like a new industry. because then we started having equipment that could tell us stuff that we didn't have before. We have equipment now that can tell you and test whether somebody has a lab-grown diamond or a natural diamond. And it's a little box. And it can tell you. You can't tell by looking at it, but there's electronic equipment and the same stuff for many things. But it's all stuff that we have. It's stuff, nobody has now to use it.
So I have a jar full of what I guess somebody who would never know it is full of raw gemstones, just rocks where you can tell some of them are either tourmaline or they're whatever. I can't remember what the other, but it's a full jar that I got from, where did I get it? I don't know. Maybe it was in the Carolinas. I went hiking and I went into the mountains and I did one of those like,
Did you get the thing of sand and got to scoop out your stones?
Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I did have them. I did take out a couple of those rocks and I had them chipped and chiseled and whatever, and I ended up getting a couple of amethyst. And so I have them because it's my birthstone and that's why I did it. I never set it on anything, but now I'm curious. I mean, I know that I got it from the ground, so they are real.
So amethyst is quartz. one of the most common emerald elements on the earth. Interesting. So the value of them probably cost you more to have them cut than they're worth. Interesting. Yeah.
It's not even my favorite, by the way. I'm not a fan of purple whatsoever.
And they make synthetic ones that are exactly the same. So, you know, remember lots of watches that have the quartz movements. You think they mine for quartz or they use lab-grown quartz things because they conduct vibrators a certain way and all that kind of technical stuff?
Here's a question, because I know this has to happen. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but this has to happen where someone says they're selling you a legitimate rare gemstone, whether it's a diamond, an emerald, a ruby, whatever. And let's say you buy, you take it home, you pay, you know, premium for it, you bring it home and you happen to go out to dinner with John Bragman. And John Bragman says, I happen to have a machine in my pocket that can determine, and I may be, you know, whatever, you know, whether that ruby that you're wearing is real and come to find out it's not. What can a consumer do at that point?
So, and here's the question, did you buy it from somebody reputable? Or did you buy it from Jimmy's Jewelry and whatever it is online, whose number's disconnected as soon as you paid for it? Right. So, we come across that often. People bought stuff and they don't even know about it, maybe even years later. Sure. They bought it at an auction. It says, one ruby and diamond bracelet. Notice I said ruby and diamond, didn't say natural ruby. It just said ruby and diamond. So now you find out that they're not natural, what do you do? Good luck. It's buyer beware, right? Yeah. So it's a tough one. If it's a reputable firm, they should put it in writing what it really is. And if they don't know, then why are you buying it from? True. We have people that buy stuff on cruise ships. Uh-huh. And cruise ships give you 30 days to, you know, they guarantee your purchase for 30 days. However, however, they're requiring you to get it appraised by an independent appraiser. I mean, someone who's not a jewelry store trying to sell you jewelry.
Right.
And they usually have their own grading scales that don't have anything to do with what we deal with. So it's very difficult to deal with them, unless they say something is natural and it's not. They use a different color scale, a different this, a different that. You can't return it because you don't agree with the price, because price is all subjective. But don't tell me something is a blue stone and it's red.
Yeah, yeah.
That person could be colorblind, John. You'd be surprised. I tell people, if you're gonna buy jewelry, buy it from someone who's reputable. Right. Someone where you are, that if you don't like it, you can go back. And here are my other keywords. If you go into a jewelry store and it says, no returns, store credit only. Oh. So what is it? All of a sudden it's telling me like, what? There's no guarantee there. I can't bring it back. Right. I mean, I understand with a certain period of time. I get that. You know, come back in a year or six months. Exactly. A certain amount of days. Bring it back. Give me my money back. Right. You know, I don't like it. It's this. If I haven't damaged it or broken it or, you know, anything like that, there should be a reasonable return policy. You want to give me a store credit? I mean, that's better than nothing. But it's but it's difficult. I have a lot of times people will buy their engagement ring at certain stores and then they get divorced. Right. And my answer is go back to where you bought it first and see if you can get your money back. Many stores won't buy their own product back. Why? Because they don't want you to know how much money they made on you selling it. Sneaky. I know. They'll say, oh, no, no, we don't buy stuff back. But if you want to spend more money, we'll take it back.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, well, that's a great deal. So you got me once again. Nice strategy, yeah. I tell people, be very careful when you buy stuff. Now, eBay is doing something interesting. I don't sell on eBay. I don't do any of that because it's just not my business. But if you buy like a watch or something from them now, they're having everything authenticated.
Oh, wow, okay.
To make sure that people aren't getting taken advantage of. Damned, yeah. They're doing some interesting things. I didn't know that. But, you know, you pay for it. Everything costs you money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, the best thing is, you know, you remember a few years ago when you turned on the TV, there's all these cash for gold guys? Yes. Well, you can still see. Put your gold in a prepaid envelope and mail it to us, then we'll tell you what it's worth. Yeah. Well, I would get phone calls from people saying, you know, we sent our stuff to them and we don't think we got the right amount of money. And I said, well, did you read the stupid clause on the contract? And they say, what do you mean the stupid clause? I said, if you're stupid enough to put your stuff in an envelope and send it to somebody you don't know. Right. That's the stupid clause. Yeah. I said, if you want to go sell your jewelry to somebody, bring it to somebody like me. I will tell you what it's worth or what I pay for or whatever it is. You want to shop around, knock yourself out. But at least you have a real number. Exactly. It's.
It's what we do. Yeah, that's mind-blowing. What about, I have heard, and I would, I assume this is true, that it's best, let's say you're buying an engagement ring, or let's say you're just buying a normal ring, but you might want to consider buying the stones separately to get as good of a stone as you possibly can, maybe following the seas, you know, the clarity, the cut, you know, the color, and then have it set. Is that usually the best way to get the best ring?
Well, okay, so there, I could, I could go, it depends on which path I want to go down. Let's suppose you're a guy and you want to get an engagement. Unless you know exactly what your future bride wants, make it simple. Put your money in the stone, put it in a very simple setting, present it. And remember, she's going to be wearing it. So don't you want her to have a say in how she wants it set? Sure. That's the simplest way. Cause I have seen too many times people will guys will say, oh, I know exactly what she wants. Not even close. And gotta have some flexibility. Now, if, if you both know exactly what you want, here's a picture of what I want. Then you can do it all at once. But remember, a lot of times people put too much money in a setting and take away from the mainstone and they spend money where they should. Styles change, this change, that changes. Sometimes you buy an engagement ring and then you decide it's time for wedding bands and the wedding band doesn't go with the ring.
And then what do you do?
You wear them on different hands, you wear them, all kinds of things to keep in mind. And it really depends on where you're buying it and who you're buying it from. And will they work with you? And will they say, let's put it in this setting. You can always bring the setting back. We'll put another one later. All different ways of looking.
Bottom line is you should do a little research.
You should do some research. Yeah. And and, you know, from experience, I have found doing this for how many years? that my success rate is really high. I'm not personally getting engaged, but, you know, business-wise, helping people get engaged. That's another story, John. That's another story that you can't go wrong by starting simple. Right. You can always add, but it's tough to subtract. Correct.
I'm a big fan of the Tikkori brand. I love the settings in the Tikkori rings. I love them. They're so intricate. I don't know if you have any, and that's obviously, that's a personal question, but do you have any feedback or anything to say on that brand?
It's very interesting. It was a style. It is, yeah. That was very popular 10 years ago. Sure, sure. And some people love it. Some people don't. Yeah, it's a very personal. Some people like art deco jewelry. Some people absolutely hate it. Some people like retro jewelry from the 40s and 50s. Yeah, it's a style. It's a style. It's what what do you like and It's also, it's expensive stuff. It is. You're paying a lot for that setting and you're spending too much money for the setting and getting a smaller center stone because of this very expensive setting. Right. And would you be better off doing it the exact opposite?
A better stone, right.
And then later on, you can always get that set. Sure, sure. It's that's a that's a tough, tough call.
It's like, what do you know about what was that diamond called? I think it's hearts on fire.
Yes, okay.
I think that was the diamond that if you look, it doesn't matter where you look at it from, like, you know, when you're looking at it through the, what do you call it? The looking glass or whatever. Through the loop? Yeah, through the loop. You see hearts in every facet. Is that a lab-grown diamond?
Nope, absolutely a natural diamond. It was a cutting style. Okay, so diamonds, whether they come out of the ground or they come out of a box, they're a crystal. Did you ever make rock candy when you were a kid? You put the string in the sugar water and it grows. Diamonds are the same thing, right? They grow, it's a crystal. It forms a certain octahedron pattern and all that technical stuff with flat sides and angles and all that stuff. And diamond cutters know how to cut diamonds the right way. And it's all proportion. There was a guy, butchers name called Tolkowski, who mathematically figured out how to get the most brilliance out of the diamond crystal, making a round diamond, how to get the most fire and brilliance out of it, what angles, what this, what that. And that was it, Tolkowski, the perfect diamond with a certain size table and depth and all that fun stuff. Then Hearts of Fire came along and they said, yeah, but we can cut it this way. and we can make all those facets look like little hearts. Then there was another one called Celebration, and there's another one where major companies trademarked their own cutting style to say, it's our style. Now it's the Ideal Maker, Triple X, and all these technical terms, putting on stuff, and all cutting styles. Doesn't have anything to do with the color or the clarity or the carat size. It's the cutting style.
And the cutting style, I guess, what it does is that it's, correct me if I'm wrong, depending on how you cut the diamond will determine how brilliant it is when the light hits it, correct?
Absolutely correct. And it's changed over time, you know, and with technology and equipment. Now you can use lasers. You can make horsehead diamonds. You can make any shape that you want using a laser. You couldn't do that in the 1800s or the 1900s.
No, of course not. There was somebody with like an actual little pick.
A little thing and they grinding them loud. And if you actually go and have the opportunity to go watch a diamond cutter work. OK. It looks like it's a phonograph. It's a round, flat disc covered with oil and actually diamond dust. And they mount the diamond and it's called a DOP, a D-O-P, and it's with a shellac. And they actually take the diamond and they grind it down. It's a grinding process. It's a real art form. And they grind away the diamond to make it the way that you want it. Now, there are also the ways they cleave them and crack them on the facet lines and growth planes and all that stuff. Way too technical for me, but it's like watching a phonograph, and they literally just grind the diamond down.
Now, is there anything that, well, is there anything about that cutting process, whether they do it by hand or by the lasers or whatever, that affects the value of that diamond? Like let's say a heart's on fire, would that be a more valuable diamond than say a very natural diamond that doesn't have all those cuts in the right places?
The answer is yes, because they're bad cutters out there and they are lumpy looking stones and some old fashioned stones that just don't have the life. You know, you're paying, you get what you pay for, right? So you want one that's brilliant and does all the fun stuff. You want them cut right. And I've seen stones that are lopsided. I've seen round diamonds that are not even round. I've seen ovals that are, Like a round stone with a point. I've seen long skinny ones. They're all different styles. And it depends on the material that they have to work with. Depends on what carat weight they're trying to maintain. Because the bigger they are, the more they're worth. and sometimes in different time periods. They cut diamonds in a certain style in the 70s to make them look big. They were called spread mix. The table, the top surface was made bigger because they looked big. And now they're going smaller because there's more life because you want the light to bounce around inside, come out in the right place, not just go in and go out there. And then different shapes. Remember, there were round stones, there's ovals, there's pear shapes, there's marquees, there's princess cups, which whoever invented those should be taken out and shot, but that's another story. Because they have their really sharp corners on them. And if you're a setter and you have to set these diamonds, that's the first thing that breaks, is the points. Because why do you have them? It's the thinnest, most fragile part of the diamond, and that's the part you've got to beat on them with a hammer? Doesn't make sense. Yeah. Anyway, that's interesting.
There really is a lot. Yeah, there is so much to this that I think meets the eye. I think for the normal person would never guess that. But going back to the topic of value, because I think that's something that most people I think will be concerned about, because at least to me, it was eye-opening to know that your jewelry could be worth substantially less than you think. When it comes to appraising. More than you think. Or I guess, yeah, that's true. I mean, if I have like, you know, Queen Elizabeth's ring that she might've dropped on her way out the castle, maybe.
You know, I see lots of times people will have taken their jewelry to someone to get it appraised. You're thinking about selling it. And I may be the second person, third person, fourth person to see it. And I've seen other people not value stuff properly or try to get it too cheap. thinking people don't know what they have. We've done lots of appraisals where people have sorted their jewelry, real jewelry, costume or fashion jewelry. And when we look through the fashion and costume jewelry, we find real stuff that would have gotten tossed away that
shouldn't be, you know, it's... That actually happened to me recently. It did.
It's all stuff that I deal with and we find it a lot. And I could tell you, you know, story after story after story after story of stuff that we have found or stuff that people have swapped stones, divorces, you know, we go on and on and on. I guess all of us are in love and war. We could go for hours.
Sure. But to finish that question, I guess with everything, the value could change with time. So if I got something appraised today, whether it's a watch, a ring, a necklace, earrings, whatever, if I got that appraised today and it was something that I wanted, to hold or safekeep for the long term, right? Whether because I wanted to cash out on it or pass it along, I should maybe have it re-inspected, re-appraised in the future if and when that time came?
Insurance companies require it.
Oh, I see.
If you want to insure something, let's go back a few years. Gold has gone up. If you had something appraised 10 years ago and it said it was worth $1,000 and gold has doubled, That's worth twice. It's worth more money. And if you have a loss, the insurance company is not going to pay you. They're going to pay you based on what it was appraised for, not what it's going to cost you to go get it now. Same thing happened, especially during COVID, with Rolex watches. They went crazily high. And I can tell you all the reasons why, but they were going up daily, way over retail prices. So people were getting watches, insuring them, and they were underinsured the day that they bought them because they cost more to replace them the next day. So.
So it's important to keep up, yeah, with the value.
It's important to keep up, and most insurance companies will tell you whether it's two years, five years, seven years. They have a requirement, right, for the policy. Some insurance companies do an auto increase every year. I think it's. Okay. You have to check your policy. It's really, it's like everything. You gotta read your policy. Some policies are replacement policies. Some policies are cash policies.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's same thing with your homeowner's insurance. I was just about to say that. Is it replacement? Is it cash? Is it depreciated value on your contents? I mean, the same thing goes for jewelry and you know, it's got to read what it says.
Do you recommend a specific insurer for jewelry?
You know, the answer is there are some very good companies. Your homeowner's insurance company could be the best one. Could be the best one. There's a company that is used a lot called Jewelers Mutual. Oh yeah, I know it. It's a good company. There's Lloyd's of London. Oh yes, of course. There's Chubb. There are lots of other ones. And I tell somebody, check. And it really comes down to what is the rate per thousand, right? How much did it cost you? And not only that is what's your deductible, And what kind of policy is it? And does this company pay claims? There's all kinds of things going on. So let's suppose you have your jewelry insured under your homeowner's policy and you have a loss. Are they gonna cancel your homeowner's policy? Beware. I mean, they're canceling a homeowner's policies for every reason that there is right now. So you gotta think carefully. Do you want to be bundled with the same company or are you better off? I can't answer that question. And I'm not an insurance agent. I'm not a broker. I'm not an attorney. I'm just a jewelry guy.
You just said John the jeweler.
I'm just John the jeweler. And just John the jeweler. You know what? Let me handle your family jewels. I know. I know I had to get.
That's good. That's really great information though. I've known you a really long time, but I don't think we've ever talked this deep about gems and values and insurances and stuff. I've learned quite a bit in this just last 40 minutes. I know you've got to get going, so I don't want to hold you too long, but I thought this was really insightful.
You can do this again anytime you want. We can take another chat. You could always go into, John, tell me some stories. You could always do that.
Yes. Oh, that's going to be great. That's going to be part two. That would be part two. And I know you've got good stories.
I got a thousand of them on. They go on and on and on. We could, all kinds of subjects and very, very interesting and all real. I mean, it's, I'm very lucky. I enjoy what I do. I'm really happy. I enjoy talking to people and, I have people who call me all the time. I have people that call me, I usually tell them, the typical words the woman says, I inherited this ring from my grandmother and I think it's this. And I say, send me a picture on the phone. A lot of times I can tell them right over the phone, it's not real. And I can just save them the trouble, save them the money of paying me to tell them what it is. But a lot of times you gotta see it, you gotta feel it, smell it, taste it, touch it, all those. There is no such thing as a virtual jewelry craze.
Yeah, that's something also to be careful with. That happens, I think, across the board. People want a quick and easy answer. They'll go and try to get their value of their property on Zillow or whatever. And no, that's not the same. Some things require a little more in-depth research or a closer look, better inspection, whatever you want to call it. And I would presume it's the same with jewelry, especially with jewelry. It's very intricate. It's small. And like you said, now we've got lab-grown gemstones. And so, yeah, there's a lot more to that than just looking at it. you know, on a virtual screen.
It's it's scary. I mean, I how do I say I'm glad that I'm old. I would not want to be 20 or 30 years old going into my business because and it's only going to get crazier and more strange or worse. I don't know the right way to word that. I'm glad that I'm with you. I'm doing it a long time. And a lot of times we just get a feel. But unfortunately, I do have to go. I appreciate your time. I'm looking for part two. Looking forward to that.
I would love that. Oh my goodness. That'll be great. I'm going to reach out to you, see if we can put that in the books. I really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for all this insight. And I look forward to seeing you again.
Thank you. I look forward to it also.
Take care, John.
Bye.
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