In episode 24 of The Real Talk, Raquel Ramirez interviews Jennifer Joy Butler, a financial services professional specializing in risk management, to discuss the importance of addressing financial trouble and finding resources for help. Jennifer shares her own personal story and offers inspiring words of advice for anyone facing financial challenges.
Tune in to gain valuable insights and discover new ways to navigate through difficult times.
TIMESTAMPS
(00:01:37) Financial Planning and Risk Management.
(00:03:29) Coaching and Wealth Management Transition.
(00:06:25) Pivoting into the World of Finance.
(00:10:46) Emotional Support During Divorce.
(00:12:17) Financial Literacy and Divorce.
(00:16:32) Gender Roles in Relationships.
(00:20:40) Overcoming Self-Doubt and Achieving Success.
(00:24:40) Embracing Change and Facing Adversity.
(00:28:01) Empowering Women Financially.
(00:28:17) Getting Honest with Yourself.
(00:33:46) There is Help and Resources Available.
(00:38:29) Curiosity and the Power of Play.
(00:41:00) Personal Growth and Resilience.
In this episode, Raquel Ramirez and Jennifer Joy Butler emphasize the availability of resources and support for individuals facing difficult life situations, such as divorce or mental breakdowns. The podcast aims to provide listeners with the understanding that there are options and resources they can access to navigate their circumstances. They also acknowledge the complexity of life and the unpredictability it brings, underscoring the importance of exploring opportunities and seeking guidance from professionals who can lend a helping hand.
In addition, Jennifer emphasizes the significance of self-honesty and taking a genuine assessment of one's financial literacy. She urges listeners to reflect on their financial knowledge on a scale of one to ten. This self-assessment allows individuals to understand their current financial situation and identify areas for improvement. Thus highlighting the need for continuous learning and growth. By being honest with oneself and recognizing areas of weakness, individuals can consciously choose to learn and improve.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Raquel Ramirez
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/featured_properties_intl/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/featuredre
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-ramirez/
Jennifer Joy Butler
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennjoybutler/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jenniferjoybutlerHPcoach/
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/jenniferjoybutler/
CRN202609-5531113
WEBSITES:
The Real Talk: https://www.therealtalkpodcast.net/
Featured Properties International: https://msha.ke/featuredre
Coastal Wealth: https://mycoastalwealth.com/jbutler
Raquel Ramirez: Welcome to The Real Talk. I'm Raquel Ramirez, your host and real estate professional here to bring you insightful conversations, expert advice, and powerful stories about what really goes on in life, love, divorce, and real estate. Are you ready? Let's get real. Hello and welcome to The Real Talk. How are you doing today, Jennifer? I am doing great. Thank you. I'm so happy to have you. I know we've talked about this for a while to have you on the show. For those of you who don't know, I am speaking today to Jennifer Joy Butler. She works with Coastal Wealth and she is a financial services professional with focus on risk management and I'm excited to bring you on board because this is a topic that a lot of times we're not able to discuss for you know privacy reasons but more than importantly, it's something that I think we do need to address because most people really just don't know that they might be in financial trouble or where those things might stem from. And in your particular case, I know you have a very interesting story to share. And I'm excited to talk about it because I know that a lot of people probably don't come out and say it, you know, and then they don't necessarily talk about it with friends or colleagues that might have a relatable story. And then that might get, you know, the wheels sinking or the wheels turning rather. So, you know, I'm excited to talk about it. And so I guess you know, let's let's jump right into it. Tell us a little bit more about who you are, what you do and why you do it, which I think is the most important piece here.
Jennifer Butler: Always right. Always the why. So important. So I'm Jennifer Butler and I am a financial services professional, like you said, focusing on risk management and really, you know, that's insurance planning. And I like to say, you know, I help my clients um plan for the expected and prepare for the unexpected right because we can have all the plans in the world we can plan for them and we should right we absolutely should but we never know what's coming we never know what that unexpected thing is going to be and it's going to be something for all of us right i don't think anyone gets through life without having some sort of unexpected occurrence just kind of barrel them over and so that's what we look for we look like we look for ways to prepare for those unexpected events so that even in those moments, you have options. Even in those moments, you can maintain your dignity. Even in those moments, you can still feel like you are empowered and you can make decisions. And so, yeah. And that leads me to my why. I mean, right. It's like I get to help people. I get to help women. I get to help people just really be in choice, create optionality in their life. You know, to me, I have a tattoo on my arm that says freedom, which you can see if you're watching, not if you're listening. But and to me, that's what freedom is. Freedom is creating any sort of situation, any sort of life, any sort of existence where you can be in choice. Right. Where are you now? Right. Where you can have that freedom to choose. And so I get to live my personal why I get to live through my work, which to me is really important, really beautiful.
Raquel Ramirez: I like that. And I love how you talk about this subject. A lot of people talk about it more, I think, from a black and white, very analytical or very mathematical standpoint. But I think you have a background in coaching. So you do have more of that let's call it, you're more in tune with the real aspect of what it's like to save and ensure and prepare and plan and things like that and what that really means for our lives. So I don't know if you want to go into that at all, but I know that you had very interesting I guess, very interesting journey as to why you got out of coaching and why you're in wealth management now, which I think is very interesting. And I don't know if you want to go into that at all. I mean, of course, you're welcome to share as much or as little as you like. Yeah. But I love that we have this opportunity to get to know you a little bit better because I think you're fascinating.
Jennifer Butler: Thank you. Yeah. No, I'm an open book. So the first part. Yeah. I mean, I think I do bring a different a different sort of perspective into the arena when it comes to, you know, talking about, you know, these sort of things and I think for me, what's most important is really looking at the individual because at the end of the day, math is math is math is math, numbers are numbers and numbers are numbers, but the person sitting in front of you is never going to be the exact replica of anybody else. And so, right. And so that's, what's important to me, right. It's important for me to understand who is sitting in front of me. What are they, you know, what is their current situation? What are their goals? What are their dreams? What matters to them? Because really at the end of the day, that's gonna be the thing that creates that sense of freedom, being able to achieve your goals, being able to live in purpose, being able to do the things that really matter to you. That's gonna be the thing that makes people feel like they've done well or they've succeeded or whatever that is. And so to me, that's the important, part of the conversation, not to say that the other parts of the conversation aren't important, but I think if that part's missing, then… Well, you don't have a complete picture. Yeah, you don't. And you can't really, you know, you can't really guide anyone unless you really understand who they are and what they're striving for. That is true. So, yeah. So, I do think that's a bit of a unique sort of way to come into this. Um, and yeah, I mean, I did a huge, huge, huge pivot in my life. Um, I've done, I've done a few, I'd like to say, I think I'm a cat. I've lived like seven lives in this one. Maybe I'll live seven.
Raquel Ramirez: That's actually pretty amazing. Most people never learn how to pivot. So that's actually very, very good.
Jennifer Butler: Yeah. Um, some were by choice, some were not, but you know, again, those unexpected things happen and you have to kind of go with the punches. For me, my pivot into this world of finance happened last year. And like you said, I had been coaching. I had been coaching for a little over 10 years, but I've been in the world of sort of mental health and personal development for even longer. I have a master's in clinical social work that I got right out of college, started to train as a psychotherapist, ended up doing trauma social work in the emergency room. Yeah, and did a lot of blogging and, and, and things like that. And so I've always kind of been in that, in that world, and eventually found my way into coaching, doing some relationship coaching, working with women who are going through divorce, and also working with high performers. And so I guess after, you know, doing that for so many years, um I think I had to take an honest look at myself as we all do and I just kind of looked around and realized you know I'm doing the thing that I've worked so hard for but I don't know if I'm doing it because I really am passionate about it still or if I'm doing it because this is what I'm supposed to do, quote, unquote, right? Because this is what I always do. And this is who I am. Jen's a coach, right? And I had to ask myself some really hard questions. And when I got really honest with myself, the honest answer was, was no, right? Like if, if I didn't have to work, if I didn't have to make sure that I was providing for my little family, Would I do this?
Raquel Ramirez: Yeah.
Jennifer Butler: And when I heard myself say, No, I, I couldn't unknow that.
Raquel Ramirez: Which is I think is one of the reasons a lot of people don't ask themselves that question because they're afraid of the answer. And that answer could prompt them to make a change that they don't want to, or they're not ready to make.
Jennifer Butler: Yeah, exactly. And it was, it was terrifying. Sure. Terrifying. Yeah. Especially because I think there are some people in the world who are doing one thing and they have this passion and this pull and this desire to do something else. And they're clear about what that is, right? If only I could do this, or if only I could do that. I didn't have that. I just knew that I wasn't fully in alignment, but I wasn't really sure what was. So I jumped off the cliff. With or without a parachute? I think without one that might be faulty. I don't know.
Raquel Ramirez: But I guess, yeah, I realize like adventurous.
Jennifer Butler: Yeah. Like I had to I think I knew intuitively I was never going to figure it out if I had one foot in and one foot out. Yeah. Yeah. So I did. Yeah, I did. And it was scary. But, you know, I networked a lot. I asked a lot of questions. I got super curious. I just really took the time, again, terrifying, but took the time to lean into the fear and the discomfort. And just the not knowing, you know, I've known what I've, I've always known I was a little adult my whole life, I got married early, all of that. I've always known and it was the first time in my life that I just didn't know. And worse. Yeah. But also an opportunity to experience something new and lean into something different. And so I did. And, you know, networked my way through some wonderful friends gave me some introductions. And I just asked the questions and found my way into coastal wealth, which is a wealth advisory firm down here in South in South Florida. Well, we're based in South Florida, but we work throughout the country. So
Raquel Ramirez: I just want to point out for people who are listening that this is, I mean, you made quite the leap. You went from what I would consider, and correct me if I'm wrong, from the emotional spectrum to more of a, what did I call it before? Like a mathematical, like a, you know, just we're talking about numbers and words, you know what I'm saying? So there are two opposite ends of the spectrum. And which is very interesting also, because what you bring to the table adds a little something that is missing in that particular industry. And you mentioned that you work with women, particularly going through divorce, and it's important to you. And as somebody who works, you know, very closely with all manner of divorce professionals and obviously specializing in divorce cases. I happen to know how important it is to have that component to add that into the service that you provide. You can't just be cold and business driven. And these are the facts and this is what we're going to do when people are in an emotional state, when they're struggling emotionally, when when they can't really rationalize what's going on, let's say, right? Because everybody experiences those things differently. So it's very interesting. Tell me then, I mean, I know why, but I want people to know a little bit more why working with women, going through divorce is so important to you and how your experience enables you to offer the right kind of service to those women.
Jennifer Butler: Yeah, so my own personal story, right? It's like we they say we teach what we needed to know, right? Or we teach our journey. And that's definitely been true for me. So like I mentioned, before I got married very young, I, you know, met my ex husband when I was 16, or 17. And ended up, we got married when I think I was 22. So really, really young. Yeah. And you know, he was, he was brilliant, he was a, even at that young age, you know, he was only a year older than me. And even at that young age, he was a finance guy, he was brilliant, he knew the numbers, he was making, you know, great money already, already creating a success. And so from the get go, I really turned over any sort of financial literacy, financial awareness to my husband at the time. And that lasted through the entire marriage, I would just kind of do what I you know, do what I whatever he said, sign the paper, what is it? Oh, it doesn't matter. Just sign it. Okay, I'll sign it. Because I trusted him. I loved him. And I just figured Gosh, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm terrible at that math. I don't really understand finances. I have no clue. Like, who am I? Who am I to have any input here? I'll just, you know, do what I'm told in a sense. And that was great until it wasn't, right? You know, it's bliss until suddenly it's not. Uh, we were married for a little over 10 years when we decided to divorce. And that was a wake up call for me because I, even in that process at the very beginning, I really believed that, you know, I can still trust him. He's going to do what's right by myself and my son. Um, it's not going to be an issue. It's going to be fine. It's going to be fine. And, uh, and then my attorneys, were going through some documents with me and they put a paper in front of me and they said, you don't own your house. And I said, what are you talking about? We bought that house together. We signed it. I remember. And they said, no, at some point, here's the date you signed. And I didn't know what it was at the time, but you signed your house away. I had signed a quick claim deed. And… Interesting. Yeah. And I never read it. I never read anything. I just find it. So it wasn't mine anymore. It was all it was in his name. And that was devastating, devastating, embarrassing. I was ashamed, angry, upset, embarrassed, all the things, absolutely all the things. And and that was like a big that was I don't know if it was the beginning of a really of a really like low point in my life, but it was certainly a big influencer in it. And from there, you know, I think after beating myself up a lot, slowly but surely had to learn how to, you know, figure out how to have some sort of financial literacy. I mean, I was at that I didn't I don't even think I knew how I don't think I knew how to pay taxes. I don't think I knew I had to pay taxes, right? You know, I didn't I didn't know anything. And so I had to figure it out. And it was painful. And it was overwhelming. It was all the things but slowly but surely I did. So I think that's why it's so important to me. I mean, I didn't have somebody holding my hand and supporting me through it. I really did kind of figure it out alone. It was lonely, it was hard. And I think I'm not alone. I think there's a lot of women, right, who kind of just turn a blind eye to their financial situation.
Raquel Ramirez: And that's difficult because you said something that was very interesting at the beginning when you said that you, you know, you married and you handed sort of this responsibility over to a man that you loved and trusted and whom you had married with the intention of living happily ever after. That's what we all do. We nobody. I mean, it's the running joke, right? That nobody ever marries to get a divorce. Nobody really marries with that intention. Your intention is to love this person through thick, through thin, through whatever, till the end of time. And so you start building that trust, you start building that foundation, and you sort of juggle responsibilities, which is very normal, right? So in this particular case, I don't know, we could probably get really deep into that as to why the men typically, at least for a certain point in history, used to handle the finances, right? They were the head of the household, they were the main breadwinner, maybe in this particular case, or in many other cases, the men are in financial services. So who better to run the books and somebody who does, you know, runs numbers all day long, you know, you handle it, honey, I'll do whatever else, whatever the other chores or responsibilities are. So it's not to say, and that can work, right? Because maybe he or she, whomever in the relationship is better at one thing than another, that's normal, that's fine. You shouldn't be micromanaging each other because then that's not necessarily healthy either. But that is not to say that you shouldn't know or learn or be interested or say, hey, honey, you know, can I help you with that? Or can you teach me a little bit more? Again, it's one of those things that it's hard to justify in the sense that, you know, are you trying to take over the responsibility or are you not trusting what I'm doing? Because then, of course, then you start breaking the trust in the relationship. But I think for sake of just being a little independent or contributing, you know, say something more, you know, it behooves us as women or men, whomever it is that runs the books, you know, to share a little bit of that responsibility so that we don't get caught in that. Because like I said, there are so many people who end up like that. It's hard to have two hands in the same cookie jar, right? So like, if you have one debit card or one account and you have two debit cards, it's hard to keep track of the finances. I typically think of it that way. So, I'll be honest, Carlos and I have a joint account, one joint account, we have several, but we have one joint account, which is like our operating account. And it's just a bank account, but I don't give him, let's say a debit card, because if he were to use it knowingly or unknowingly, sometimes you pull out the card to pay for gas or whatever, and I don't know about it, and I'm the one running that balance, then we can easily overdraw. That is a very clear example of how it's important to really, you could just let one person handle that. But then, yeah, what if something like this happens? That curveball that you're talking about, that unexpected situation in life that now the marriage isn't going to work, certainly not because of the finances, could be for any reason.
Jennifer Butler: For any reason. Well, and it's OK for one person to handle that, but it's also OK for that other person to say, Hey, let me see what's going on. Like, you know, let me let's chat about what's going on. Yeah. Tell me where we're at.
Raquel Ramirez: Yeah. What does this look like? I have a conversation about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you got caught in that, which again, it happens a lot. I hear it a lot. And that is, I can see, and I know how that turned out for you. Luckily, actually, you were that type of person that you turned it into almost like a superpower because you learned from it. You decided this would never, ever happen to you again, that you were going to, crawl out of that hole that you felt that you were in no matter what. And here you are, you're probably one of the more financially literate people that I know now, because you decided, you know, that that you were going to overcome that. And so I could see, of course, and for the listeners out there, this is her big why she doesn't want other women to to find themselves in that same situation, which is huge.
Jennifer Butler: Yeah, absolutely. And it's also, you know, sort of a self success or I mean, I would never have imagined that I would be sitting in the seat as a financial services consultant working with a wealth advisory firm like never would have I believed you know, my 20 year old self believe that that was possible for me that I could ever be that that that smart or that savvy or anything like that, you know, and so for me, it's kind of like, I'm doing the thing I thought I could never do. And if I can do that thing, I thought I could never do what other things that I don't think I can do, can I actually do right? And that's for everybody, right? It's like, we can do the thing that we think we never can. Yeah, we just, right, we just have to figure it out and find a way. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, it's, yeah, it's a bit of like, you know, look, we all doubt ourselves sometimes, no matter where we are in life, right? We all have those days or those moments where we're like, my god, I can't do this. Or what if I can't do this? Or, you know, what am I doing? And so you know, for me it's that powerful reminder that like, you know what, I've done the impossible and I can do that again, so.
Raquel Ramirez: Now, there is a happy ending to this story. You did recover your home, if I'm not mistaken. And I'm guessing it was probably some legality there, because I don't think I actually don't know. And this is obviously not necessarily a question I can answer because I'm not an attorney, but I don't think you can, as a spouse, quickly claim your property legally without having any recourse to yourself, to your spouse, unless, you know, you weren't legally married. But the happy ending is that you were able to recover your home, correct?
Jennifer Butler: Yeah, and I don't remember all that we were in California at the time. So ah, that's Oh, I see.
Raquel Ramirez: See, I actually didn't know that. I thought you were in Florida. And I'm like, Wait a minute. We were in California laws.
Jennifer Butler: Yeah, they may be different. It might be different. And I don't remember all the legalities around it. It was there. Yeah. And it wasn't like a simple like, you know, but um, yes, after years and years of negotiation, and All the things through a very high conflict divorce, the house actually was awarded to me in the settlement. So that felt extremely, you know, like a big win.
Raquel Ramirez: I'm sorry that you had to go through that, but I congratulate you for being on the winning end of that. Thank you.
Jennifer Butler: Yeah. You know, I'm sorry for anyone who has to go through it. It's not anything anyone ever wants to do. It's not something I would have chosen to do, of course, but again, we all go through things. And that happens to be one of the things I went through. And I can honestly look back and say that as high conflict as it was, as just, I could probably write 10 books about, you know, the story, my story. Um, it And it sounds so cliche. It's the reason I am who I am. But it really is, you know, the, the things that I had to really choose to do over those years, you know, choose to keep my heart open, choose not to get ugly, choose to defend my child and make sure that I put him first. All of that all, all of that the whole way through, I discovered things within myself that I had no idea I was capable of. And so would I choose to do it again? I'd be like, yes, no, but I'm grateful for it.
Raquel Ramirez: Yeah, hopefully, I mean, ideally you would save all that suffering. But yes, we are forged through our experiences, good and bad, probably more bad than anything else. Good doesn't necessarily prompt us to make changes and to dig deep and to face fears. It's usually the bad and the ugly that force us to do the uncomfortable. which is, um, which is very interesting. I'm trying to recall. I read an article the other day, um, actually it was a pastor who had written this article and it was very sweet and very interesting. And I can't recall exactly the words that he used, but he said something about that. The people that all the people that he's ever counseled, um, have been prompted to make a change only through, I think it was like adversity. Um, There were three things, but he said it so nicely. I wish I had that easily accessible. So I would say it because I think it would be perfect. But yeah, the point is that most people really only change when the going gets tough. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.
Jennifer Butler: It's either like an external force or an internal force, right? It's like there's, it's never like, oh my God, everything's so wonderful. Look at these rainbows, I'm gonna jump off a cliff.
Raquel Ramirez: I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me tell you, just to reiterate what I said earlier, which is about you pivoting, because I remember sitting in the first presentation I ever saw you give, which you mentioned, you know, this idea of pivoting and how you were forced to pivot. But pivoting is something that we don't embrace, I don't think, as a culture. And I say that more so from my culture. I have a Hispanic background. And I think for us, it's almost like a sin to say we're going to stop doing what we're doing to change course. So I don't necessarily know that that's true about every culture. I would say that there are several cultures that probably sharing that, that are very, you know, strict and, and, and kind of rigid in their traditions where they say, you know, this is the way it was done generations ago. This is the way that my mother or my father, you know, told me or expected of me. And this is, you know, the career path I have to choose no matter what, because it's, you know, I'm sixth generation dentist or whatever, whatever. But it's like you said, does it make you happy? Would you do it if you had any choice, you know, in the matter, like really any choice, if you had the freedom that you were talking about, as opposed to the limitation, right? As opposed to just the one option. If you could choose from anything and everything, nevermind financial goals, nevermind any of that, would you still do that one thing? So I applaud you. I love change. I don't know, and I've thought about this in my career, whether or not I would pivot, And I will admit in open air that I don't know. I think I could. I don't know necessarily to what. I love what I do and I enjoy helping people through some of the bigger challenges in life. But I commend you for that because that is, that's incredible.
Jennifer Butler: Thank you.
Raquel Ramirez: That's incredible. So tell me then, let me see. I know that you already mentioned some of the mistakes that you made and all that, but how can women listening today begin to empower themselves financially?
Jennifer Butler: So I always like to talk about this question really from again, like the deeper, the deeper part of ourselves because the, the, the financial tips, the, the, the sort of the math, the, the, Like you said, but the more sterile part, you can Google, right? You can jump on Google, you'll get all the answers, there'll be articles, all of that. But none of that is going to matter. You can read the articles, you can hear the advice, you can listen to the podcast, you can do all the things. But none of that is going to resonate if you don't sort of do some internal stuff. And to me, it always starts with getting honest with yourself, right? Really looking in the mirror and being honest, taking an honest account of where are you at? How, you know, scale one to 10, how financially literate are you? Are you a two? Are you a one? You know, are you a seven? But you know, guess what, seven out of 10, that's still only 70%. Right? You're still barely passing. So that that willingness to Just not beat yourself up, not judge yourself, not put yourself down. None of that. But be willing to say, you know what, this is where I am today. And what can I do next? Right. What do I need to do next? So that first thing is to truly, truly, truly get honest with yourself and then you can learn. Right. And that's the next thing. Make the choice to learn. make the choice to be a little bit better than you were yesterday, right? Because that's all we really have the power to do, right? That's agency, that's control is really focusing on the things that we have control over. And we have control over what we learn and how we learn. So if you're kind of where I was, though, when I came out of my marriage, that thought of learning can be ridiculously overwhelming because I basically knew nothing. Right. And when, when you're that low, like I would have given myself a one out of 10, you know, when you're, it's kind of at the one, the thought of learning can paralyze, paralyze you. Yeah. Absolutely. Paralyzing. Like I'll never learn this. How can, you know, it's like, where do I even start? You know, And so what I would say is don't focus on all the things, focus on the next thing. What is one thing? What is the one thing, the next thing that I could learn, that I could research, that I could get curious about and find information about? And just focus on that one thing. And in addition, kind of give it a deadline, give it a date. I'm going to learn about how to budget by January 1st, right? And I'm going to just focus on that because guess what? When January 1st comes and you now know how to budget, you're higher up that scale, right? And now you, right. And then you can focus on the next thing. So if you just kind of keep yourself laser focused on that one thing at a time. it is less overwhelming and will help you move through, you know, that freeze response. Yeah. And then, you know, just getting help, right? Like, especially through divorce, I feel, you know, one of the things that always resonate or stands out for me from when I was going through it was how alone I felt. And it wasn't because there was nobody around. It wasn't because I couldn't reach out for somebody. It's because it was my own mindset. It feels very lonely. It feels like nobody understands. It feels like you can't reach out because you don't want to kind of bring all your negativity onto someone else or you don't, right? You just, you don't know how to share. And so it can feel really isolating. And so I encourage anyone going through it at least reach out here, get help. Don't try to do this part alone. Because the truth like there's big decisions that need to be made in the moment that aren't only decisions that are going to be for the moment, they're going to be decisions for the rest of your life that you're making 100% true. Yeah. And so the more you can get a team around you, just helping you make educated, logical decisions, even though you're emotional, right, helping you see through the emotions, past the emotions, and really guiding you. And just, you know, when you look back later, you're going to feel really good that you reached out for help. And you didn't, you know, you didn't have to do this part alone. So That's kind of what I would say if you're struggling, it's like get real with yourself, get honest, make the decision to learn, focus on that one thing, and then get help. You know, there's people like my team and myself, or others, right? Maybe you have somebody and you just haven't picked up the phone to call them, call them. But reach out for help for sure.
Raquel Ramirez: Yeah, I think most people would be surprised at who would be willing to lend a hand. And again, I say this almost every episode that one of the purposes of this show is to provide people with at least the idea that they know that there's more out there. There are options. There is help. There are resources out there that they can contact and attain to figure out wherever it is they are in life. Because again, it's not necessarily just about divorce. It could be in another critical point in your life. you could have lost someone, you could be, I don't know, you could have had like a mental breakdown, you know, about something. And it could be all manner of things. Life is not so black and white. And so anything could happen. And there is a world of of opportunity out there for us to investigate and see what might be a better fit, where there might be resources, where there might be professionals who can lend a hand or can guide you. I mean, it's just, it's mind boggling. I get this a lot where people come up to me, and they see that I have this designation that I'm a certified divorce specialist. And one of two things will usually happen. One, they think I'm an attorney, which I don't really know why, because I don't have any of the, you know, I don't have the ESQ. I'm not an lawyer. I don't, nothing about what I put out there says that, but I guess, you know, in, in, in, in just looking at that and their mindset might be, you know, that they're looking for some legal advice. Um, And then the next thing is that they had no idea that someone like, like me with what I do with my specialty actually exists. They think it's like something out of another planet. They're like, well, what spaceship did you land here on? I'm like, no, we're just not very many, you know, with this particular designation, but there are people out there who do what I do, either because their experiences led them here and they want better for other people, or because they just figured out a better way to help and give back. Which, for instance, is how the collaborative law process started. The gentleman who pioneered that branch of law on this side of the United States is actually a very happily married man. So he can't say that he decided to do that from personal experience. He's just been, you know, in family law for 40 something years. And he thought there's got to be a better way. So, yeah, there's so much out there. And so I hope that this podcast, whether it reaches one person or a million people, that somebody out there will take at least one little nugget from this episode or any episode that might help them. get to the next step.
Jennifer Butler: Me too. Me too. Yeah. Very well said there. There's always a better way and there's always somebody out there to reach out to. And I think the thing that we tend to forget when we're stuck, when we're in pain or suffering or going through a challenge is people really do like to help, you know, people really do like to be helpful and be there for others and be there for the people they love. And you know, it's, it's, they, it makes them feel if nothing else, if it's just, it makes you feel important to be able to help somebody you love. And so, right. And so we forget that we kind of feel like we're going to be a bother. We're going to, you know, but we're not, we're actually going to make them feel good by asking. So it's something just important to remember, because I think a especially when you're suffering, you kind of forget that.
Raquel Ramirez: You do. You do. You kind of lock yourself up in that. And it's like you said, you don't want to put that on someone else. And you start thinking of yourself almost as a burden. And then you close yourself off and you isolate and then the problems become bigger.
Jennifer Butler: Yeah, exactly. Down the rabbit hole you go.
Raquel Ramirez: Yeah. But let's end this on a really positive note. Do you have any parting words of inspiration for anybody listening out there?
Jennifer Butler: Wow. Yeah. I mean, gosh, I think that no matter where you are, you know, no matter where you are, what you're doing, the choices you've made, where you see yourself today, there's nothing you can't do, you know, you can do the possibly impossible, you know, maybe even like, ask yourself that question, you know, what is that thing that I think I could never do? And like, just get curious about it? Yeah, well, what if I could? Yeah, you know, what if I could? How, how would I go about maybe figuring that out? You know, just, just get playful about it. Sometimes I think we get so serious, but get playful, get curious, ask yourself some questions. How could you make it fun? I don't know. You might surprise yourself.
Raquel Ramirez: I bet you'll surprise yourself. Yeah. I'm going to use that and I'll give you credit for it, of course, about being curious because yes, we think of it almost like a task and then we get into that mindset that this is insurmountable. I'm starting at ground zero and then I'll never make it to that point and blah, blah, blah. But when you get curious about something and you just figure, I'm just going to look into it, I'm just going to Google it or I'm just going to ask, I'm just going to go there and check it out or whatever. It becomes fun. And then you don't even realize how much time you've been dedicating to it or how much you've learned. And this actually takes me back to, I had a session with my Dr. Katie Dabrowski. She's a, she's a clinical physician and she's my personal trainer. And I love her, I'm actually going to have her on the show at some point because she has a lot, a lot to say. But we had a training session the other day, because I don't know if you know this, but I play beach volleyball and I had an injury not so long ago. I broke my finger and I had to have surgery and all these things. And so I've been out for weeks and weeks and I'm desperate to get back on the sand. And of course I'm worried that I'm going to lose some agility and all those kinds of things. Long story short, I went to see her the other day and we're kind of incorporating some of those more dynamic exercise routines to keep, you know, some of that agility and those things going. And so she told me, she's like for, you know, to end the session, we're going to do some fun, almost like these mirroring, I guess, like exercise, I guess you want to call it, but it was almost fun. And so we got into that conversation about how much more you can accomplish when you turn the task into something that's playful. Something that generates curiosity and genuine interest, as opposed to, you know, you don't even realize how much you'll push your body just to get to the ball or just to score the goal. But if you do it like a task and you said, okay, next I got to do this and then I got to break this down and then I got to stand at a 90 degree angle, it becomes tedious and then it turns you off. So to go off of what you were saying about getting curious and make it playful and just give it a chance, you know, just, yeah, turn it into something that's fun and not so much as a task as think of it as a real opportunity to just see what happens. Yeah, exactly. I like it. Curious. Curious. I like it. I'm going to use it. Jen, thanks so much. I loved having you.
Jennifer Butler: Thank you for having me. I could talk to you forever. You know that.
Raquel Ramirez: Me too. And I love your story. Thank you so much for sharing that. Those are personal details. And I really do think that anyone can take that and learn from it. So I appreciate you sharing that. And I'm sure someone will take something from that. I hope so. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The Real Talk. We sure do appreciate it. If you haven't already done so, be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you consume podcasts. This way you'll get updates as new episodes become available. And if you found value in today's show, we'd appreciate it if you would help others discover this podcast. Until next time.