In episode 23 of The Real Talk, Raquel Ramirez interviews a real estate professional, Douglas Hiller, to discuss the shocking and disturbing things some tenants do to rental properties. From painting on walls to destroying plumbing and electrical systems, they dive into the unbelievable stories of property damage and the frustrations landlords face.
Tune in to hear more about Doug's impressive journey and insights into the real estate industry.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:02:34] Tenancy Disputes and Evictions.
[00:04:32] Landlord's Right to File Lawsuit.
[00:14:21] Eviction Process and Fees.
[00:19:19] Property Destruction by Tenants.
[00:23:14] Negotiating Cash for Keys.
[00:27:11] Hiring an Attorney for Protection.
[00:29:37] Attorney Fees for Closings.
[00:34:10] Filing Complaints for Damages.
[00:38:30] Real estate Attorney Process.
In this episode, Raquel Ramirez and Douglas Hiller emphasize the importance of hiring a good attorney for any legal process. They express their admiration for attorneys and describe them as invaluable resources. They firmly believe that attorneys are essential in various legal matters, including the closing process in real estate transactions.
Furthermore, Raquel and Douglas express a clear preference for attorneys over title companies. They firmly believe that attorneys provide a higher level of expertise and are better equipped to navigate complex legal processes compared to non-attorney title companies.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Raquel Ramirez
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/featured_properties_intl/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/featuredre
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-ramirez/
Douglas Hiller
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dfresh74/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hiller-302ba8/
WEBSITES:
The Real Talk: https://www.therealtalkpodcast.net/
Featured Properties International: https://msha.ke/featuredre
Hiller Law, P.A.: https://dhillerlaw.com/
Raquel Ramirez00:04 - 00:28
Welcome to The Real Talk. I'm Raquel Ramirez, your host and real estate professional here to bring you insightful conversations, expert advice, and powerful stories about what really goes on in life, love, divorce, and real estate. Are you ready? Let's get real. Hello and welcome to the show. How are you doing, Doug?
Douglas Hiller00:28 - 00:29
I'm doing great. How are you?
Raquel Ramirez00:30 - 01:23
I'm doing pretty well, thank you. I am really excited to have you on the show today. I've been trying to get you on for a while. For those of you who are tuning in today, I'm speaking to a friend and close, let's call you a colleague, even though I'm not an attorney, I consider you a colleague, Douglas Hiller. You are a member of my NADP group, and I'm really, really excited to know you. I'm happy to be speaking with you today. And I don't know if I've ever told you, but I'm actually really impressed about your education. Just to give you a little bit of background on Doug, aside from the fact that he was born and raised in Bergen County, New Jersey, he actually moved to Atlanta to attend Emory University, which is pretty prestigious, if you ask me. Then I think you got a bachelor's degree in Spanish and International Studies. And then you actually moved down to Miami where you got your law degree from UM, correct?
Douglas Hiller01:23 - 01:25
Correct. I did the joint degree program at UM.
Raquel Ramirez01:25 - 02:36
That's right, because then you got a master's in business administration with a dual concentration in finance and international business. That's pretty impressive, Doug. I got to be honest. That is pretty impressive. And then, of course, you grew up in a household where both your parents were in real estate. So it was inevitable, of course, that you go into real estate as your field of law. Your mom was a realtor. Your father was a commercial real estate appraiser who I think also had his broker's license. And then since 2004 actually you've been handling various areas of law related to real estate like real estate closings title work preparation review of commercial and residential leases landlord tenant disputes condo Association collections and representation and construction litigation. And then of course, let's not forget the fact that you also work with divorce-related clients. So you handle a lot of things related to refinancing, removing spouses from the notes. I even read somewhere around here that you've been involved in partition cases, which is really interesting. And then of course, you know, I just, I think very highly of you for your experience and all the work that you've done. And so without further ado, welcome.
Douglas Hiller02:37 - 02:43
Thank you. Thank you. I know we've been trying to coordinate and it's great to be here. So thank you for inviting me.
Raquel Ramirez02:43 - 03:31
No, of course. Of course. It's really my pleasure. And I've heard you speak before. You've given great presentations. I think today we're going to cover tenancy disputes, evictions and things like that, which is actually kind of really common topic. I don't really hear much about that. And I'm in the real estate industry. But there is a lot of misconceptions. There's a lot of issues that surround those things. And you could be like when I say you, I mean, in general, someone could be a tenant. They could also be a landlord. They could also be an investor. You could have tenants, you know, somewhere in your family. Maybe you inherited a property from your parents or you co-own a property with your sibling and you've got tenants in there. And then sometimes people don't really know what to do and it gets a little complicated. So I'm hoping you could shed some light so people can learn a little bit about that today.
Douglas Hiller03:32 - 06:55
Absolutely. Yeah, it can get difficult and convoluted on both sides, whether you're a landlord or a tenant. Now, more often than not, I represent landlords. I have represented tenants. And usually on the tenant side, you have issues that are black and white. You know, like a landlord has to if they're going to make a claim against the deposit under Florida statutes, you have to send the letter via certified mail within 30 days of the tenant vacating the premises. And more often than not, landlords don't. You know, they give excuses. Oh, I didn't have the forwarding address. Fine. Send it to your property address and in the mail, get forwarded. Ask the tenant for their forwarding address. But the language in 83.49 says failure to send that notice is the landlord forfeits their right to assert a claim against a security deposit for repairs. Landlord can always file a lawsuit to get the money back. I'm about to actually file a lawsuit along those lines where the tenant left numerous repairs and tried to work it out. It doesn't matter if you forfeit your right to put a claim against the deposit, you still have the right to file a civil lawsuit. So that's totally different. But it's funny, in Florida, People often don't know, and not you in particular, but I've worked with other realtors who they, you know, they're representing a landlord and the landlord wants to sell the property. And they contact me and say, hey, this tenant is two months behind, three months behind, sometimes eight months behind, and they want to sell the property. And usually my response is, why did you wait so long? You know, like there's no requirement that you wait three months or six months. This isn't during COVID. You know, back during COVID, obviously there was a time where especially residential evictions were on hold. But I had one realtor send me, here's the seven day notice to the tenant to pay rent. And I'm like, No, it's not a seven day notice. It's a three day notice to pay rent. And I'm sure you're familiar with it. And it's really black and white in the statute. But most people don't read. They just they they either take things from the Internet, the third parties, you know, and there's there's different types of evictions. Like there's different ways to remove someone that you don't want living in a property. You know, we've talked about this before. There are evictions. Right. And that's where there's a landlord tenant relationship. There is a unlawful detainer, which there's no obligation to pay rent. It's, you know, it's like when you have someone staying there for month to month, paying rent for a period of time, like a friend is staying. And then you have the ejecteds. So they're all related. You're trying to remove someone, but it's a different statute. It's a different procedure. But the most common, the most common by far, is an eviction. And the vast majority of evictions are for non-payment of rent. That's, at least in my experience, that's probably at least 80 to 90% of the evictions that I've filed are non-payment of rent.
Raquel Ramirez06:55 - 06:57
I can imagine, yeah.
Douglas Hiller06:57 - 07:17
And with the rents as high as they are, listen, you're the realtor, but with the rents as high as they are in Miami, The sooner you move on something, what's the average rent now, like $2,800 to $3,000? Oh my God, it could be even higher. And you're looking at studios and one-bedroom apartments. I think the average rent in Miami is somewhere close to $3,000 a month.
Raquel Ramirez07:19 - 08:04
Well, I'll tell you, I was looking, I was actually just looking for a client who inherited a property, she needs to rent it out. It's a small three two, I'm talking about, I think it's just shy of 1600 square feet. And there's some comparables out in the market that are renting in the 4000s. I'm talking about West Kendall. This isn't like a 2022 home that's got all the bells and whistles. It's not, you know, it doesn't have an enormous backyard or a pool. It's nothing extraordinary. And not that there's anything wrong with Kendall, but Kendall is suburban area. It's not coral gables. It's not on the water. It's got a very small footprint and there are comparables in the high threes and low fours. It's ridiculous.
Douglas Hiller08:05 - 08:21
Listen, I live, as you know, just outside Coral Gables, walking distance. And if I go back pre-COVID maybe five years ago, I think a two-bedroom, two-bath in my building was probably leasing for $22,000 to $2,400. Now it's close to $4,000.
Raquel Ramirez08:21 - 08:46
Yep. I remember when I used to live out there in a one, one and a half for $1,950. $1,950. And I was like, man, that's, but you know, I loved where I lived. I had a great condo. It was just beautiful. Um, that was, that was way pre COVID. That was like, that was like eight, nine years ago. So I can't imagine what that unit in that building is renting for now. I'm, I'm pretty sure it's close to 3000.
Douglas Hiller08:48 - 10:02
It's, it's crazy. But, but that, that, but that's my point. You know, when someone has a tenant, that's not paying, the sooner you move to a victim, the better off you'll be I have one situation. And listen, depending on the, and not to sound bad, but depending on the socioeconomic position of the tenant or tenants, sometimes it's really hard to find them. Some tenants are really good at getting lost, not being on the grid. And so if you want to sue them for damages, because there's two components to an eviction, you know, like eviction is one, you want possession, you want them out, you want your property back, you want to be able to re-rent it and bring money in. You got taxes, insurance, maybe a mortgage payment, and you've got to pay all that. The sooner, the better. When someone comes to me and their tenant is three, six, or eight months behind, I want to pull my hair out and say, You know, it's frustrating because it's not that difficult of a process, but it's a time-sensitive process. You know, you post a three-day notice. Sorry, go ahead, you have a question.
Raquel Ramirez10:02 - 10:38
No, no, no. Yeah, actually, I was going to ask you about that too. Elaborate, because I think people do think that it is a difficult process. There is this notion, and again, I don't normally get involved in evictions because I do mostly sales, and when I'm working on the lease side, I'm helping a landlord you know, rent the place or helping a tenant find a place. So the eviction processes really have never anything to do with me. But but I think from hearing landlords and hearing, you know, the stories, you know, in the industry, I think people think that the eviction process is a complicated one, that it's mostly against landlords. So why don't you go ahead and elaborate on that a little bit?
Douglas Hiller10:39 - 14:20
So the eviction process itself is a you're entitled to what's called summary procedure. It's it's a it's a streamlined type of lawsuit. If someone sues you for damages. They have to file a complaint, they have to serve you with a summons, and the summons gives you 20 days to respond. You could file at the end of the 20 days, you can have an attorney file a notice of appearance, a motion for extension of time, a motion to dismiss, there's ways to drag it out on the civil side. Now, on an eviction, none of that is applicable. On an eviction, and you can have an eviction that also has to account for damages, so you have to serve two different summonses, a five-day summons and a 20-day summons. So the five-day summons, you post the three-day notice, you wait three business days, the tenant still hasn't paid the rent and brought a current, boom. What happens? Okay, you file the complaint. There is a little bit of a delay in the system because you have to file it. Of course, I file it online, everything is e-filing now. Yeah, I go on the court system website, I file the complaint, file it online, and then I have to wait for a case number. And depending on how busy the clerk of the court is assigning case numbers, sometimes it's within 12 hours or 24 hours. Sometimes when the courts are really busy, it's taking two to three days to get a case number because the case can't move forward until you get that case number. You get an email right away with, we've got your complaint. And then you get an email, hopefully the same day or within 24 hours, it says, here's your case number. So once you have the case number, then you can prepare the summons. And the summons can get issued by the clerk. You can either file it online and they issue it that way. It's a lot quicker if you walk it through. Like I'm in my offices in Coral Gables. I can take the summons and go right to the clerk at the Coral Gables courthouse and they will clerk will issue the summons. You pay the $10 per summons fee. If it's say it's a husband and wife, you got two summonses for evictions. and you get it issued right then and there. A lot of the process servers will, you can email it to them and they'll walk it through and then just charge you for it, but that starts the process. So once you have that case number, give the summons, the complaint, give it to the process server, they're going to knock on the door, they try a couple times, no luck, then they post it on the door. That's the big difference between an eviction and an action for damages. If I'm suing you for damages, like I'm suing you, say Raquel, you owe $20,000 in rent. The process server has to deliver it to you or to someone who's an adult who lives in the house with you, if you had an adult child. Yeah, they have to serve you. They have to serve you. But when it's an eviction, if they can't serve the person, then they ultimately post it on the door. And when they post it on the door, that's good service. You get a return of service from the process server, you file it in the court. After the expiration of five business days, there's a series of documents you have to file, affidavit of non-payment of rent, non-military affidavit. You move for a clerk's default, you move for a, you get that, that sometimes is a delay of a couple of days. And then you move for the judge to enter a judgment of possession. And so once you get that judgment of possession, then you can then you get what's called a writ of possession. Right. And the writ of possession is the document that tells the sheriff to throw these people on the street. And that's that's a whole nother set of fees.
Raquel Ramirez14:20 - 14:24
Right. I heard you say that. Yes.
Douglas Hiller14:24 - 14:49
So what's interesting, You know, obviously, the United States were very much against bribery, you know, but there's an there's an expedited fee system. Right. And, you know, it's not a bribery. It's you pay a fee if you want your eviction expedited. Great. You're going to pay the sheriff a fee because the sheriff of Miami-Dade County is overwhelmed with evictions. They're bogged down.
Raquel Ramirez14:49 - 14:50
Right.
Douglas Hiller14:50 - 15:27
You know, if this was a smaller county, a lot less evictions, things get taken care of a lot, a lot quicker. But once you get the judgment and you can either deliver the writ of possession to the clerk and they'll deliver it to the sheriff as long as you have the check. But if you're an attorney, like you couldn't do it if you're a property owner, you can't walk through a writ of possession. As an attorney, I can go to the clerk, get the writ of possession issued and walk out of there with the issued writ. and I can hand deliver it or have a courier deliver it to the sheriff, you're not allowed to walk out with it because you're not an attorney. It's as if... Interesting.
Raquel Ramirez15:27 - 15:30
I didn't know that. OK.
Douglas Hiller15:30 - 15:37
So and then you get into the different fees. I don't know if you want to go into them, but there's there's, you know, three different fees.
Raquel Ramirez15:37 - 15:46
The expedited fee, when you say expedited, does that mean like as soon as you turn it into the sheriff, they go that very same day? Do they go within 24 hours or we're looking at a couple of days? What's the expedition?
Douglas Hiller15:47 - 17:02
Okay, so your regular writ is $115. I don't think it's gone up in the last couple of days. It's $115 that you pay to the sheriff, and the sheriff will go out there in two to three weeks, depending on how busy the sheriff is, and post the writ of possession. It's supposed to be posted pretty quickly in a conspicuous place, and it says you have 24 hours to get out. Okay, that's the short version. On the $115, it's going to take a couple weeks for the sheriff because you kind of go to the you know, the bottom of the list. There is a rush fee. It's $373, still not bad considering rents are $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 a month. So the 373, the sheriff, it used to be they would go out there within 48 hours. My understanding is sometimes it's a little slower, it might be 72 hours, but they post it on the door within 48 to 72 hours for the 373. And sometimes that's enough. When a tenant gets a writ of possession posted on their door, sometimes, They're gone. They skedaddle, they're like, okay.
Raquel Ramirez17:02 - 17:08
Within a few hours, yeah. They don't wanna be dragged out.
Douglas Hiller17:08 - 17:14
Exactly. So, sorry, I was my device telling me low power.
Raquel Ramirez17:14 - 17:28
Well, yeah, I can see how that, yeah, I can see how that's starting to take longer, because 115, you said 115, right? 115. 150. Versus 300 and, really, the difference is nothing. They're gonna end up having to raise that if they don't wanna start
Douglas Hiller17:30 - 19:07
Well, the 373, it's still, even though they posted quicker, they're still not going out there for another two to three weeks to actually remove them. Oh, so you're paying a rush fee to post just to post. I see. Now there's one final writ fee rush fee, and they don't have it in Broward. I've asked if they have it in Broward. So they have it in Miami-Dade and it's one thousand six hundred and thirty six dollars, if I'm not mistaken. And that one, depending on when you get it to the sheriff, they either post the writ the same day as you get it to them or the next day. Like if I got it to them in the afternoon, they'd be going out the next morning. And they go back to remove the tenants in like 48 hours. They actually go. So I had one, you know, not a lot of people like, oh, but it's $1,600. I'm like, it's 1,600 and you're not losing four weeks of rent. So I had one of those and it was, It was a couple of years ago. There was more litigation involved. There was a dispute over title, and we won that lawsuit, and so then we got rid of possession. It was a tenant who tried to steal a property. Long story. But we got rid of possession, and it was now owned by an estate. And we paid that $1,600 fee. I got it to the sheriff on a Thursday morning. Saturday morning at 6.30 a.m., the sheriff was there, knocking on the door. And I think the tenant knew that we were that we were going to move quickly because not only was the tenant already gone.
Raquel Ramirez19:07 - 19:11
They cleaned on the way out.
Douglas Hiller19:11 - 19:38
I doubt it. Quite the opposite. They demolished the property. That's sad. fans, lights smashed, ripped down, toilets smashed, windows smashed. The place was a disaster. Painting on the walls. It was one of those situations. That case alone is the topic for another podcast.
Raquel Ramirez19:41 - 20:55
That's so sad. I don't know why people do that. I mean, you know, as a landlord, you have the right to receive, you know, rent for your property. These are the conditions. This is the rent. This is the lease, whatever. These are their terms. You know, you have to make good on that. It's like, I remember when I was a property manager as a corporate banker, you know, during the Great Recession, of course, we used to take back some properties. And every now and again, we used to run into a home that was, I mean, it looked like a Jason Pollock painting on the inside. It was horrible. People used to throw, you know, cement down the toilets. I remember walking into a house where they stripped everything, kitchen, that you couldn't tell. I mean, unless, I mean, yes, you could tell because you could see like where there were connections, you know, for plumbing and stuff, but they literally just severed every plumbing line, every electrical. All you could see were just torn up walls and just a blank canvas. You couldn't tell where the kitchen cabinets were. They took everything, everything. It was unbelievable. Like how much effort does it take for you to do that? And who do you think you're getting back at? I mean, that's just so sad, but you're right. That's the topic for another conversation.
Douglas Hiller20:55 - 21:38
The amazing part, I guess what frustrated me in a situation like that, obviously you gotta file a police report. Right, right. And in our situation, We, you know, my client was actually the personal representative of the estate, filed a police report, but the sheriff was like, Probably not going to get anywhere. You know, you can't prove it was the tenant. Right. I'm like, I'm like, the writ was posted yesterday, the day before. And you're going to tell me some other person came in here in the last 48 hours and spray painted messages on the wall. Yeah. Like, you know, expletives. Right. You know, you know, really nice of you just before Christmas and this and that. Yeah.
Raquel Ramirez21:38 - 21:40
They're personally direct. It was me. Yeah.
Douglas Hiller21:42 - 21:45
And the sheriff's still like, yeah, good luck with that.
Raquel Ramirez21:45 - 22:46
Yeah, we had we ran into those cases, too, at the bank. It's sad, but that's interesting that you would, wow, so it's 1600 bucks and you get somebody out within basically like 48 hours. And that's the whole point of it, right? I mean, the sooner you get in there, the sooner you are able to evict someone, I think, well, aside from the obvious, which is the sooner you are able to re-rent the property to start collecting rents and paying your expenses, your mortgage, your taxes, whatever, the more you mitigate losing funds, but also the lesser the risk you run of having the tenant, I mean, in this case is really not a good example, but by giving them a few days, you reduce the risk of them actually doing harm to the property because they have to get out, you know, they're gathering their things, you know, so ideally or potentially you would reduce that risk, I'm assuming. I mean, if you give somebody like two weeks or like they have time to like sit and plot, you know what I mean? Like, what are we going to take? What are we going to destroy?
Douglas Hiller22:47 - 25:15
Listen, and I've told clients who are landlords, and even though it's not in my financial interest to do this, because then I don't make money on filing an eviction, I told them, listen, before I file, why don't you go negotiate with the tenant? Why don't you go negotiate with the tenant? Offer them 500 bucks to move out. Cash for keys. You know, cash for keys. Exactly. It's not just in the foreclosure market. If you offer them cash for keys, you know, you save all those costs. Yeah. Can you get a judgment? Are you entitled to get a judgment for attorney's fees and costs? You know, say the whole thing costs you between attorney's fees, costs, you know, filing fees, written possession. Say you do the 373 and the whole thing costs you about fifteen hundred dollars, you know, service and process. it's also gonna take you at least a month to get them out. So wouldn't it behoove you to maybe offer 500, $1,000? Be like, if you're out in two weeks, I'll give you $1,000. And that's part of the issue with some of the tenants. A lot of times they don't have the money to rent a new place. And so they're like, listen, I need time to save up money. And I've actually had tenants file those answers. Which gets me to what I wanted to say before. A lot of times, the tenants will find an answer. Oh my God, I see your pinkie. I was like, holy cow. I knew you broke it. But a lot of times, tenants will file an answer in the lawsuit in the five days. It's like, oh, I have medical problems, and this happened to my child, and I'm experiencing all these kinds of difficulties. And the law in those situations, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on which side you're on, doesn't care. The way Florida statutes for residential tenancies in particular reads, it's under 8360, is if the tenant doesn't do one of several things, the landlord gets an automatic default final judgment or possession. They have to deposit the undisputed rent to the court registry. If there's a dispute over the rent, You know, say the landlord's claiming the rent is $2,800 and the tenant's like, no, it's $2,500. Or maybe the tenant wasn't paying the full rent because of repairs that weren't made. Well, the tenant has to pay the undisputed rent into the court and file a motion to determine rents. Or if the tenant claims that the rent was paid in full, that's like the one defense where you don't have to deposit the money. Tenant says, here are a bunch of receipts.
Raquel Ramirez25:15 - 25:17
Receipts, uh-huh, my bank statements, whatever.
Douglas Hiller25:17 - 27:04
Now, I actually, you know, I love telling stories about funny cases. I had an eviction. I had a client, he's since passed away, but he actually had a receipt book, you know, the old carbon copy receipt books. And that's how he would write his receipts to all of his tenants. He had multiple rental properties. And so they would get a carbon copy or they would get, you know, the white and he would keep the yellow. But he uses the same coupon book, the same excuse me, same receipt book for all of his tenants. So the numbers would never be sequential. Oh, my God. So say he had 10 properties. He writes 10 receipts. They're all going to be out of order. So I had one of his tenants who I filed an eviction against. filed a defense that she's paid and she forged receipts forged his signature and filed those in the court. And I actually because I'm intimately familiar and personally familiar with my clients. I was familiar with his bookkeeping system and his receipt system. I've seen them. I've seen his receipt books. I filed my own affidavit with the court saying, first of all, it's not his signature. His signature is forged. I've been his attorney for X number of years. And number two, he uses one receipt book for all of his properties, so they'll never be sequential. Her receipts were one, two, three, you know, they're all numbered in the upper right side. Yeah. And so I filed my affidavit with the court, filed a motion for final judgment. Within 24 hours, I had a default final judgment. I was actually out of the country when that happened. And I was able to get the judgment because, you know, I looked at it carefully and I was like, something's wrong here. I'm like, that's not his signature. And this is not how he does his paperwork. I'm like, this is a forgery, a complete forgery.
Raquel Ramirez27:04 - 27:22
A clear example why you need a good attorney with you. At all times. I said it in previous podcasts. I love attorneys. They're such great resources for me. And I'm always suggesting people hire an attorney for any and every reason. Well, not any reason, you know.
Douglas Hiller27:22 - 27:25
Don't hire an attorney to be your realtor, OK?
Raquel Ramirez27:26 - 27:40
That is true. That is true. I second that. I second that. That's really interesting. Yes, hire me and then I'll help you, you know, throughout the transaction process, but then we'll hire Doug so that we can actually perform the closing. See, that's how that works.
Douglas Hiller27:41 - 27:46
Exactly. That's another podcast about, in my opinion, why you hire an attorney and not a non-attorney title company.
Raquel Ramirez27:46 - 28:43
Yes. Oh, my God. You know, we could do another podcast about that. That's actually a really good point. I don't use title companies for many, many years. I've been in real estate 20 years. I think I stopped using title companies 15 years ago, maybe. I only work with attorneys and I encourage my buyers whenever. So, you know, believe it or not, a lot of buyers that I've been working with lately come fully stocked with like an entourage, an inspector, a lender, like people that you wouldn't even imagine that they would know or have any ties to. And I've met several of them that have attorneys in their families or that know attorneys or that are, you know, friends of a friends of a family or somebody. And so, yeah, I always encourage them to use attorneys for their closings, but And I'm not, God forgive me for saying that and for saying it publicly. I don't, I'm not a fan of title companies for several reasons, but I do like attorneys for sure.
Douglas Hiller28:44 - 29:34
I know this is a totally different topic and we can talk about it another day, but I had a client who, actually a realtor that I've done closings with, and she was trying to get me to do the title on this closing. A client of hers who's bought other properties bought it. And I know we're totally off the topic of landlord-tenant, but... No, no, that's fine. But she said, you know, what are your fees? And I hear it. You know, I charge a flat closing fee and whatever the title insurance is. And this person insisted on using their attorney, who is a personal friend, you know, who's not a real estate attorney. I think he specializes in either immigration law. No, it wasn't immigration. I think it was maritime law. Oh, so he got his friend who does title. So like the family friend was charging like six thousand dollars.
Raquel Ramirez29:34 - 29:36
That's like three times the title.
Douglas Hiller29:37 - 29:46
Listen, my closing fee, depending on how complicated, there are transactions where I have to micromanage. But normally, I think my current closing fee is like $9.95.
Raquel Ramirez29:46 - 30:42
Yeah. I tell people that before they jump the gun and I say, listen, it's very comparable. You'd be surprised what attorneys charge for closings. You would think that it's like a $15,000. It's not. But you've got somebody who's on the right side of the law, who's looking at this very carefully, and he's going to be able to jump in when they see that something's wrong. Title company is not going to do that. And for those title companies out there, please forgive me for saying that. I know that there are great title companies out there that perform a great service, and they do have a place. My preference is not that. I work very closely with attorneys for different reasons, and so I have a preference. And it's just, I've had a far better experience working with attorneys in general. So yeah, that is my personal preference. But people have this idea that by hiring an attorney, they're going to spend, X amount more when in the reality, it's very comparable. I don't think I've ever met an attorney to charge $6,000 for a closing.
Douglas Hiller30:42 - 31:44
No, no, no. That was just one attorney. The one that was not even doing the closing. The other one was charging $2,000 or $3,000. So between the two of them, they were charging like $9,000. And, um, I think the most I've charged as a closing fee on a residential deal. And it was a multi multi-million dollar deal where I had to, I spent hours coaching. Sorry. My, my device was running low. I'm down to 5%, but I apologize. Um, this was kind of impromptu. So I did, you know, it's getting close to closing time anyway, but. on that one, which was a seven and a half million dollar deal. I think my closing fee was nineteen hundred and ninety five dollars. Oh, and I put in for three to four times the amount of work I would on a normal transaction because it was so complicated. The house was in foreclosure. There was daily growing interest and it was interest at 24 percent. And so it was it was a lot of very difficult closing, but we got it done.
Raquel Ramirez31:45 - 34:11
Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of work. That's a lot of work. So I want to bring it back to, because I know you're running low on battery and I don't want to get caught up with this. Going back to- No, no problem. Going back to the tendency, you know, an eviction situation, and I, we were talking about the eviction process. And I know that people now at least should have a little bit more information as to how that actually works and why you'd want to get ahead of the problem before it becomes a financial burden. Because yes, after two, three, four months, you're talking about, let's say an average rent is $3,000. You could be out of pocket already, like $15,000 paying a mortgage. And even if, and let's, Let's assume best case scenario. You own the property free and clear. You still have taxes to pay. You still have insurance to maintain. Those are expenses that are coming out of your pocket. And as a landlord, as a property owner, you have the right to, you know, to collect rent on that. So the idea, of course, is to get in there as soon as possible. You don't have to wait 30 days. You're not a bank. You don't have to let that thing sit in a system, red flagging for six months before you can actually, you know, file a complaint with the court system. But let's say that as a landlord, not only do you realize that this is going sour, right? That this tenant is probably, because of course, everything isn't as black and white, right? You've had a good paying tenant for what? Let's say a year, two years, six years, whatever. And all of a sudden, this tenant doesn't pay this month. And you send them that notice and they don't get back to you. I mean, I think what happens a lot of times is that landlords are like, well, they've been a good paying tenant. They've maybe been late once or twice. They've paid me on time every other time. let's give them a chance. And then the tenant comes back and says, hey, by the way, you know, I had to, you know, take a second job, whatever, I can't, you know, pay the full rent this month, you know, so those conversations start happening. And before you know it, it's been two months, it's been three months, and now the landlord is starting to realize, hey, I'm gonna have to, you know, it's in other words, you don't necessarily know that your tenants gonna just cop out within the first three days of not paying you. But in addition to that, there could also be the instance in where there is damage, right? And it could be substantial. You might get away with, I don't know, a couple thousand dollars, painting, cleaning, stuff like that. But in the case where there is a lot of damage, can you, like I think you said earlier, file two different complaints, right? Let's say like one for the eviction and the other one for damages. Can you do that?
Douglas Hiller34:11 - 35:58
Absolutely. It can be done as two separate lawsuits. Obviously, you have to pay two filing fees. It can be done as two separate lawsuits or it can be done in the same lawsuit. You can have count one for eviction and count two for damages. I have one pending right now and the tenants got out before we even got to the writ stage and we can't find them. because the process server couldn't serve them personally. He went to knock on the door with the 20 day summons. And so he posted the five day, but we still haven't been able to serve them. So we still have an outstanding complaint for damages. Actually, and it's funny, this one, part of the issue, part of the eviction was a non-monetary default. He did like a, the tenant, he did a, You know, I don't want to say a Hialeah, but, you know, like a a ghetto Airbnb. Yeah. Like you rent it and you've I'm sure seen it. You rent the property and then he sublets it, which is a violation. Your standard lease has a paragraph in there. Yeah. The realtor standard lease. You know, you must get the landlord's written permission. And he just sublet it out to a bunch of people. So, you know, rent rooms. I had a room where the tenants partitioned a part of it. They put up a wall. He's a contractor. He put up a wall and he rented out a room. The things that happen, yeah. But you can file two separate lawsuits. The advantage of doing it once at the same time is being able to serve the tenant. Right. Listen, especially on the lower end properties, you know, anything, you know, a lot of properties may be in a homestead or something like that. Sometimes it's hard to find them. You know, you can start doing skip trays, but it might be a few months before their address shows up in public records.
Raquel Ramirez35:58 - 36:19
Right, right. Well, then what is the likelihood really that if you do file a complaint for damages, what is the likelihood that that tenant will actually bring whatever funds are being demanded on them. What are the chances of you getting paid? Swim to none. Swim to none, right?
Douglas Hiller36:19 - 37:33
Yeah. I mean, you can have a judgment in public records. Even if you get the judgment, you get to serve them. You get a judgment, it gets recorded in public records. If they ever go to buy a property, if they ever get, you know, if something happens, that'll be recorded. That'll show up. but there's people who are in the gray market economy and they're always kind of going under the radar. I just handled an eviction for a realtor who's also a real estate investor and real quick before we get disconnected. you know, she inherited the tenant. And so she didn't get to do her own research and due diligence, I'm sorry, there were two, two owners of the property. And so when I did some research, as I was getting ready for the eviction, that tenant, this was the third eviction or fourth eviction of that same tenant and his wife in like the last three years. You know how long it takes to do a search in Miami Dade County to see if there's been an eviction filing inside person? Five minutes. It's true. You can do a background check. And I can get on the clerk's website and just give me their last name, their first name and do a search. And boom, yeah, this person's been evicted like four times. Very similar allegations, stolen construction materials, non payment of rent, you know, it's You know, a little bit of research goes a long way.
Raquel Ramirez37:33 - 38:49
It does. It does. And that's one of the reasons that when I work with landlords, I always encourage them to let me do as much vetting as possible. You know, request background searches, you know, all kinds of credit reports, police background, whatever. And we go down a long list and we try to obtain as much information as we possibly can. And sometimes, you know, for the most part, I've been very lucky, I think. For the most part, I've found really great tenants for some of my landlords. You know, every now and again, you get an offer from someone that you're like, oh, I didn't even realize that someone's background report could look like this. But there is a lot actually to cover when it comes to this topic. And there are subtopics still to Tenancy, Landlord, and the Tenant Act. And there's so many things and so many branches we can go into, but I know that we're pressed for time because I don't want to get cut off. And I promised you already that I would have you back because there's so many other topics that I want to discuss with you. I'm looking forward to it. And I know you have a lot to share. Yes. I'm going to cut it right here then, because I don't want to get cut off. But I do thank you so much for imparting some of that knowledge. I know it's going to be useful to a lot of people, because like I said, most people just don't really understand that process. So if and when you do run into that situation, I want everybody out there to know that if you have a need for an attorney, a real estate attorney to help you with that, you should reach out to Doug Hiller.
Douglas Hiller38:49 - 38:54
Thank you so much. It's so great to see you. Likewise, Raquel. And I'll see you soon.
Raquel Ramirez38:54 - 38:54
Absolutely.
Douglas Hiller38:54 - 38:56
More will be revealed.
Raquel Ramirez38:56 - 38:59
Absolutely. I love it.
Douglas Hiller38:59 - 38:59
Take care.
Raquel Ramirez39:00 - 39:18
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