In episode 34 of The Real Talk, Raquel Ramirez interviews Anna C. Fernandez, a family law attorney with her own practice, Legal Lotus. Anna discusses the importance of mediation in divorce cases, the value of seeking professional help, and the benefits of having a supportive team during challenging times.
Tune in for a deeper understanding of the complexities of family law and the importance of seeking the right support
TIMESTAMPS
[00:02:10] Family Legacy in Law.
[00:06:06] Shedding Light on Important Topics.
[00:09:20] Navigating Divorce with Children.
[00:11:34] Attorneys' Impact on Legal Process.
[00:17:38] Divorce and Estate Sales Insights.
[00:19:22] Preparing Clients for Mediation.
[00:23:45] Mediation Preparation and Mindset.
[00:25:30] Juicy Divorce Stories.
[00:31:41] Seeking the Right Help.
[00:34:18] Sentimental Value and Attachments.
[00:37:31] Divorce Coaching Profession.
[00:41:40] Professionals and Referrals.
[00:44:46] Options in Divorce Proceedings.
[00:46:55] Divorce Parties Trend.
[00:50:28] Moving On from Past Relationships.
[00:55:07] Finding Love After Divorce.
[00:57:50] Staying Married for the Children.
[01:00:56] Considering Divorce as an Option.
[01:05:40] Trusting the Process.
[01:08:50] Life is Full of Choices.
In this episode, Raquel Ramirez and Anna Fernandez stress the importance of seeking professional help during divorce, such as therapists, divorce coaches, and mental health practitioners. These professionals can offer support and guidance to individuals navigating the emotional and practical challenges of divorce.
Moreover, Raquel and Anna underscore the benefits of mediation in divorce cases, highlighting its role in promoting cooperation, communication, and reaching mutually beneficial agreements. By considering mediation as an alternative to litigation and seeking professional help, individuals can work towards a more amicable and efficient resolution of their divorce, leading to a smoother transition into the next chapter of their lives.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Raquel Ramirez
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/featured_properties_intl/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/featuredre
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-ramirez/
Anna C. Fernandez
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/annabananaesq/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/anna.fernandez.92775838/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annafernandezlaw/
WEBSITES:
The Real Talk: https://www.therealtalkpodcast.net/
Featured Properties International: https://msha.ke/featuredre
Legal Lotus, PA: https://legallotus.legal/
Welcome to The Real Talk. I'm Raquel Ramirez, your host and real estate professional here to bring you insightful conversations, expert advice, and powerful stories about what really goes on in life, love, divorce, and real estate. Are you ready? Let's get real. Hello and welcome to The Real Talk podcast. How are you doing, my friend?
Raquel Ramirez
Hi, Raquel, thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here with you and your community.
Anna Fernandez
Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for accepting my invitation. For those of you who are tuning in today, I am speaking to Anna C. Fernandez. She is a family law attorney with her own practice, Legal Lotus, which I happen to love. And so before we get started, I want people to get to know you a little bit. So tell us who you are and how you came to be a family law attorney and how you came to Legal Lotus. I love that name.
Raquel Ramirez
Oh, thank you. So born and raised in Miami, Florida, never moved, always stayed here. Love it. Don't plan on moving. I got in two families. So my dad is an attorney. My grandfather was also an attorney. And when I first got when I finished law school, I knew I was going to be an attorney. I just wasn't sure what area. Right. And finished law school. I started working with my dad and he was getting a lot of repeat clients. He practices primarily criminal law. So he really doesn't like family and I have a psychology background. A lot of attorneys don't like family. I get it, but I actually do. So that works in my favor because I'm passionate about it. But my background is psychology. So that comes into play a bit. And yeah, so when I was helping him out, he would pretty much just kind of like give me all of the family cases. And that was something that I was able to take and enjoy. And now I haven't stopped. So I've been doing it for about 13 years now. And I love it. And what about your grandfather then? So my grandfather, I didn't get licensed. I mean, he passed away before I got licensed. He was an attorney in Cuba. And then when he came here, he became an attorney here as well. And he was more of civil rights. And I guess a background that not many people know is that, so I think it was in the 1990s, he and my dad and another gentleman went to the Geneva Convention and they pretty much presented the reasons why Cuba should be listed as a country that violates human rights or basic rights. And based on that presentation, The Geneva Convention did find that, you know, put them on that list and found that Cuba does, you know, the politics. Yeah. Yeah. Their government. It violates human rights, repression and that stuff. So I know that. Yeah. And he was also he also kind of like you. He had a radio show. He would bring a lot of people to talk about politics and talk about the community. And he was also an author. Like, yeah, that was my background. So he was exceptional. And he was focused more like on civil rights and that sort of thing. And then my dad was very, very like his passion. It's all about criminal law. It's incredible. Yeah. It's very interesting. It's never its own moment. And that I love.
Anna Fernandez
So that's amazing. So three generations of attorneys. That's fantastic. And one who started it off by paving the way for something pretty big. That's something to be proud of. That's incredible. That really is incredible. Now, you mentioned the whole thing about, you know, the show, but you also have a show, too.
Raquel Ramirez
Yes, I do. I actually that I got from my dad. He it's on PBS, the local WRN, and it's my pro bono. So it's so for your viewers that don't know attorneys, we have to do pro bono service every year. And my pro bono service is producing and interviewing professionals on PBS every other end. in Espanol. So it's really cool. I'm looking forward to having you on the show, which is I can't wait to be a lot of fun. But so it's the legal segment of the Spanish portion of WLRN. Since it's local South Florida, we have so many Hispanics. I mean, yeah, it's primarily a Hispanic community, right? Right. So every Sunday they have a Spanish block. They have a Colombian show. They have a Cuba while they have different types of shows with their own theme. And my show is the legal one. But I bring on a lot of professionals like yourself to talk about not not only how the law overlaps in almost everything. I think every single profession. Right. But also to provide value to an education, really, to the community, talk about what it is that professionals do. And then if there's like changes in the law or something that's really, you know, it's in the news and the headlines, we like to address those types of topics that are relevant so that everyone's informed. Cause some, you know, it's, it's to give open access to an education to, to our community. So I really enjoy it.
Yeah, that's actually the whole point of this podcast show too. I remember I came across that one day and I said, man, I've had such great meetings with some other professionals. Sometimes they're meetings to catch up on past experiences or you haven't seen somebody that you've known for a really long time and you kind of want to catch up. For the most part, you're talking to professionals who are providing you with some form of value, whether it is an update to their industry, cases that they're working on, it could be all manner of things. I feel very privileged to be in the presence of those professionals and gaining that information, but there's so many people out in the normal world who work, let's say, a normal nine to five who are never privy to that information. So I thought, what a great way to bring that to the forefront and give people the opportunity to tune in and cue in, say, on maybe some informational nuggets that they could use on their day-to-day. Obviously, they're not gonna solve all their problems by tuning into a podcast, but it'll at least shed some light on some important topics, like you said, maybe some industry updates or some things that they should probably look into that they wouldn't otherwise, let's say, think of, because they're not having that conversation on a day-to-day basis, like we are, like we're privileged to do.
So yeah, you're doing too, because you're bringing. Yeah, you're opening up the conversation, right? There might be someone listening in a week or a month or even a year and still get value from what you do. So thank you.
Thank you, too. Thank you, too. So let's talk a little bit about family law, since we have you here. This is the right opportunity. And you said this is your passion. It is mine, too. I never really thought that I would say that. A lot of people come to me and say, well, you specialize in in divorce cases, that's got to be horrible. I mean, what, you know, and they, I can understand why they would say that family issues, let's say, are usually drama laden. And I can understand that when we're talking about divorce, it's never really a pretty picture. You know, people are splitting up, but when you're able to help them cross that bridge when you're helping them turn the page and see that there is still hope for a better future. That's really where you get the fulfillment factor from the transaction. And I'm assuming it's probably the same in your case, but you tell me a little bit more about that.
I'm totally with you on that. It's very emotional. Any way you look at it, it's very emotional. And my job as an attorney, I have to kind of shut that off. And it's not, yeah, that's the difficult part for me. If my clients, I explained to them, you don't want me to be emotional because you want me to be focused and logical because I am also, um, I have their money and I have like their future in my hands. So I want to make the best of it and not necessarily, I don't want to say waste time because maybe it's something important to a client to get back at their spouse or, you know, get this, get the house, get, but the way that I tackle all of these type of cases is more of like, okay, what is it that you want? What is it that you need? And then we'll talk about whether it's obtainable and whether it's worth, you know, going through litigation. Because with family, especially if there's kids involved, there's no saying if the case is going to take a month, two months, or even a year. Some cases last longer than a year. But if done I really believe that if both people come to the table with the mentality of, look, we had years, great years together, obviously, if they're married, they have to have some sort of happiness at some point, right? especially if there's kids involved. Now here we are, this is where we are right now, and if we could move forward, we're going to have to move forward, but the way that you decide to show up is going to really, it's going to gauge on top of everything. And it's gonna set the tone, exactly. If you go into it, that's why also mediation, and for viewers that may not know what mediation is, mediation is, if you have a child, you will be sent to mediation 100%. It's not a uncontested matter. So like if you and your spouse don't agree to how you're gonna spend your time with your kids and how you're gonna divide the assets, you're gonna be sent to mediation before you get to the court. Or before in front of a judge to finalize the case, right? And in mediation, that's another great avenue, because let's say you were mad at each other when you initiated the case. Okay, we have time. We're getting to mediation. So once you get to mediation, you want to go in there with like an open mind and open heart because it's the best chance you'll have to decide the case on your own merits or decide and make the decision on how the case is going to be decided. Otherwise, you're going to have to go to court and you're going to have a third party who's a judge who's going to decide on the issues. And our judges are excellent. We have excellent judges, but they have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases. So they're not going to know the cases as well as you do. And mediation will give you the power to make that decision. And it's not about, oh, I'm going to walk away with everything I wanted. It's more like I walked away, I made the decision, and it's the best for both parties. And that's really what my goal is. And again, going back to what you said, it is something that's fulfilling to be able to see your clients through it, they grow. I love seeing when my clients like they grow, like where they started, you know, how it started and how it's going. And I mean, yeah, I think every single person that I have helped has grown too. to an extent.
That's good. Yeah, it's great. I love it. That should speak. Well, it does. It says something about you as an attorney specifically, because and I mean that truly, because I've known a ton of professionals over my career. And I've met a lot of people who have complained about the process because they ended up, let's say, choosing an attorney who was really fighting against them. And by that, I mean, who somebody who was adding fuel to the fire and who was making the process far more miserable. And I think some attorneys don't realize how much they contribute to this process with their attitude and their, let's say their focus, their goal, their intentions, even their own energy, right? And it's unfortunate, but if you go into the process, let's say hiring an attorney who's prepared to help you find a solution, right, who understands that this is an emotional process and who is prepared to help you find a solution, then you can get past those things. Somebody who says, For example, like you, who encourages mediation, it's fantastic. But if your clients are already of the mindset that they're going there to fight or that they're going there to waste time, then no, that's not going to work out for them. Mediation is obviously going to be a waste of time, although you may have to do it because of the process. But again, that speaks volumes of you as a professional if what you're doing is really encouraging a solution as opposed to adding fuel to the fire, which is unfortunate, but it does happen from time to time.
Yeah, that's an excellent point. Unfortunately, it's Yeah, it happens a lot. And I'm not saying it's just here in Miami or in South Florida. It happens everywhere. And I guess it happens in different professions as well. But what I do, I do see, yes, they add fuel to the fire and that's never helpful. That's never helpful. It's costly and it's unnecessary. And everyone has their own style. I'm not critiquing anyone else's, but for me, that's not effective. What I do see sometimes as well is they don't educate their clients. And that's another thing. I feel like if a client is well-educated, and you don't have to explain the law to them because it could go over their head. I'm not gonna sit and talk like legalese and what emotion is and all of that. I mean, I may explain emotion, this is the fastest way we can get in front of a court or that sort of thing. But in everything that's filed, in everything that's presented, of course, any argument we present, it's backed up with education and that's what's great. I've been doing this for a while now that I've developed a lot of templates where I'll just send the template with definitions. I even have like little workbooks like to prepare you for mediation. Yeah, because I find value in that and when a client actually takes it to heart and does the work, then it's it helps me do my job too. And then of course, we'll circle and it really it's effective. So I try to be effective because no one wants to be in a divorce for years. No one wants to be in it for a week. Like you just it's not some hard time. Even though the outcome will be exciting because you, you know, you get a huge load off, you're going to start a new life. It might be challenging, but with every challenge, you're going to gain something. So it can be exciting, but the actual process, it's very emotional and it's not as exciting. And that's the honest truth.
I'm sure you know that with what you do as well. Yeah, a lot. I'll tell you, it's actually the reason I got into focusing more on divorce because I handled my own sale when I was getting a divorce and I had a very amicable divorce. It was uncontested. We had really no assets except for our primary home and we were kids. I think in our early thirties, yeah, we were in our early thirties and we had just bought this house in our late twenties, you know, so there wasn't a lot, you know, we were working very hard, we were trying to save money, but that was it. And we both understood that we didn't want anything that didn't really belong to us. So it was not contested in any way, shape or form. I remember at one point, what he did want was the ring. And I remember calling one of my attorney friends and I said, look, I'm really new to this. Do I have to give this back to him? And he was like, no, it's a gift. I said, perfect, thanks. So that's, you know, that was the only thing that we argued about for all of like 30 minutes and that was it. So of course, being that I was in real estate, we agreed that it would be the best course of action for me to sell our own home so that we wouldn't have to split that part of the commission with someone else, et cetera. Anyway, even though it was amicable, and I say that in quotations because obviously, as you said, it was still a miserable process. I remember it was one of the most gut-wrenching things I had to do each and every time I pulled up to that house to have to show it to someone else. It may or may not have been worse for me in that case because I was the one selling it, you know, going from A through Z in that process, as opposed to just opening the door and letting somebody in. But it was horrible. It was horrible. And so the more I dug into this process and the more I got through it, the more I realized that there were really just no resources. no help, nothing really directed to anybody who was going through this process like I was. And, you know, so I started to dig a little further and I started to realize there was a real need. And if I was going through something so quote unquote amicable, can you then imagine how much worse it would be for people who are tearing themselves apart, who have kids who have multiple properties who have millions of dollars in an account, and dogs and cats and silver spoons, they want to split, like, how horrible could that be? And so that really was the reason that I got into this journey. And I started so to speak, and this is, you know, kind of knocking on people's doors, you know, and saying, you know, do you think that you would hire somebody who specialized in this? Oh, absolutely. And, and that's how I got into it. And I've never looked back. I mean, I, I don't do divorce exclusively, but it is my specialty and I do an estate sales are the same estate sales can probably be worse. If you can believe that it's, disgusting what some family members will do to each other for property that didn't even stand to belong to them in the beginning. But that is a whole nother topic of conversation. I can understand, you know, when a husband and wife decide to fight over something that they both lived in, that they both paid for, that they both enjoyed, that they both wanted, whatever, I get it. It's half really is theirs. And you know, they have to figure that out. But when you're talking about some distant cousin and some tío pepe and some niece or nephew or grandkids or siblings, come on. But anyway, I digress. I love the fact that you talk about mediation. Mediation is something, like you said, is really underappreciated. I think you can get a lot done if you prepare for it. So tell us maybe a little bit about what you have, like in terms of worksheets or workbook, you said, how you prepare your clients for mediation. And I think that's interesting.
So I don't have it in front of me, but I do know that it's very general in the sense that I have prompts and then, but before that, I have an explanation. What is, what is mediation? And even before I give them this, I always have a conversation with them. This is what it is. And most people have a general idea of what mediation is. They see it on TV, you know, it's, it's something that is, It's fairly common because it's not just done in family, it's done in every court, every type of case. Not criminal, but every type of case that involves either money or family, or even probate, I believe that you can do mediation. So what I give my clients is, first I give them a consultation on what it is, and I explain to them that it's because some people don't even want to go. They're like, I don't even want to see my spouse. And by the way, you could do zoom mediations where you don't see them at all and have like breakout rooms. You could even do it in person and not see your spouse too. You could be in separate rooms. So that's just a side note. So don't worry, like if you're looking to divorce and you're scared about mediation, do it because it might be, it might be effective. It could be fruitful and you don't have to see your spouse because it's, you could actually talk to the mediator and that's okay. That's normal. So I explain the process to them and then I give them, it's kind of a workbook where we go through what it is that they want. Why do they want it? And it's it's almost like breaking everything down, because you have a lot of like self discovery through working out those exercises, because maybe sometimes let's say you want you want a car. And but the reason why you want it is not really it's not a reason that you want to hang on to or. like if you were to tell the client you really want the car would you exchange one year of litigation for this car and if it's not worth it then it's not i mean then why do you want it right you know right um of course if there's like a slam dunk oh well because i'm the one that paid for it xyz they could still consider giving it to the other party because it, you know, maybe a peace of mind or maybe I want the painting instead of the car, you know, give and take. So it kind of breaks down what it is that you want. What are you willing to to give up? And what do you anticipate the other party wanting and why? And we go through and if you can't answer some of the questions, then we have to do a little more digging. It's set up. Yeah, it's set up so that There has to be an answer. I mean, and there's no right or wrong answer either, right? You don't know something that's already kind of a flag like, OK, we got to we got to do a little more like work on this. It's like if you don't know what the other party wants, maybe it's me, okay, I have to do a little more work. I got to call opposing counsel and see what it is, because I like to also prepare for mediation and know a background. And let's say it happens, opposing counsel is not always responsive. That's okay too, because we're going to get through that in mediation. I'll give you an example. A few weeks ago, I was dealing with an opposing counsel that was very non-responsive. opposing councils going through other things. And remember, we're all human. So we all have our own. We're all going through stuff. So I'm not going to put pressure on this person. We have mediation set up. That's fine. I use that opportunity to ask the mediator, even though we were the petitioners, because you typically a mediation me your says an opening, explain to mediation is and then separates the parties and talks to the petitioner first. And I actually told them, please speak to them first, because we don't know what it is that they want. And, you know, that mediator actually took about an hour with them because it was it was a lack of education. They didn't even really know exactly what they wanted or they were asking for stuff that was like, did you really think about it? Can you even prepare? Yeah, no, but you know, but that's, that's why mediation is great because even though the mediators not they cannot give you legal advice, right, they tell you the experiences they can tell you well, technically, if you go before a judge, I don't see how you would be able to get this with this argument, you know, and that sort of thing. And then it, it kind of, it shifts the mind, the mindset. An hour later, the mediator came back to us. So we had a list of everything that the other side wanted, which is great because that already shows that we're getting somewhere. because at least we're bringing them to the table. But I like to be at the table while prepared. And that's one of the ways, the workbook and like those prompts, that's one of the ways that I, or that's one of the things I do to prepare myself.
Fantastic. Believe it or not, I don't know that I have gotten this deep into a conversation about mediation with another attorney. Yeah, we talk about it loosely, even when we talk about it on the NADP, sometimes we throw out some topics, but we never really discuss whether or not some of these attorneys are preparing their clients for mediation, and that is key. And to your point, I guess I'll say, is that mindset is everything, right? We talk about that. There's this whole new, I guess, craze about making sure that you have the right mindset before you do this, that, and the other. But if you go in there thinking that all you're going to do is fight for things that you may or may not need, then you may leave empty-handed or you may go through a 15-hour mediation and get absolutely nowhere, only to end up taking that decision and giving it to somebody else who has no idea who you are and who, for better or worse, really doesn't care. I mean, because the judge is there to do a job. They're there to preside over something that you obviously can't decide on for yourself. So they're going to look, they're going to, you know, determine and correct me if I'm wrong, determine based on the law and based on the history of the file. This is what's going to this person. This is what's going to that person. And this is what we're going to do, like it or leave it. This is what it is. And they're going to stamp it and say, have a good life. but you have this chance in mediation to determine what's really best for you and your family. And that's great that you talk about those things about, make sure that you know why you want something, because when we're angry, We will say and do anything that will make us feel better, but not necessarily be in our best interest. I will share a story with you. I actually did not end up helping this couple and it's really sad. It was a really horrible situation. I cannot go into details to what happened, but it's a, unfortunately, it's a very juicy story that I cannot share, but she was so upset. so upset at the situation that led to their divorce, that she was one of these, I don't care if I'm burning in the fire, you're burning too. You know, sort of a thing. So this thing dragged on and on and on and on and on and on and on until they practically had nothing. And I mean nothing, but she didn't care to the point where she ended up lying under oath about where she was going to be. And so she kept kicking down, you know, kicking the can down. the road in terms of, I think it was their final court hearing or something, and she got caught in that lie. And then, of course, everything went out the door because the judge felt insulted, as he should have been. And he said, you know what, this is what we're going to do. X, Y, Z. I don't know, obviously, the details going forward because I was actually thrown out. I was supposed to help them list their home. And the judge was so upset that he kind of just scrambled everything and says, okay, this is what we're going to do. We're going to sell the house on this day. We're going to use this realtor. We're going to do this, not any other. And that was the end of it. But the point of that was she was so upset that she didn't care if she died doing whatever it is that she was doing so long as it hurt him. And so how can you possibly make decisions that fall in line with your future goals or in line with things that are actually beneficial to you and to your kids? Because they had kids in common. When you're thinking that way, you can't. You can't resolve anything. You want the spoon? No, you don't want the spoon. You just don't want him to have the spoon or her to have the spoon or whatever it is. And but at what point do you draw the line? Because you can't also sell your soul. And, you know, you have to maintain some integrity. You have to maintain some money in your bank account so you can live the rest of your life. So, yeah, it's it's a horrible thing. And you can't be making rash decisions when you're under that kind of stress and pressure. So if you want to get things done, I say mediation is a perfect place to do that, if not collaboration. And hiring an attorney who will tell you those things and really help you probe and decide why is it that you want that car, that house, that whatever, you know, or why don't you want to do this? Or why do you want to do that? That's excellent. I think that's fantastic.
Right. And it's, I mean, there are attorneys that would love that a client like that, because like you said, adding more money. It's so costly. But when you have that mindset, you already have in your mind, like, I will pay that money so that my spouse could suffer. And it's almost like that money can go to your kids. That money can go to a down payment for a new house. And unfortunately, a lot of it is, can you, you have to kind of like sit them down and let's say they do want something and it's a valid reason why they want it. They also have to take the next step and say, can you afford it? Because that's all that's the reality of it. And if you want to get stuck on something, it's going to get even more expensive. And then you're going to eventually be emotionally drained. And if you're not, maybe you live for drama, but that's a type of client that I don't necessarily like to work with because it's,
It's a value.
Yeah. And it's I don't. Yeah, I just don't like to. I don't like to work on cases like that because I like to bring solutions. And if you're stuck in that, you're going to be in a circle until you go in front of the judge and they do just that. They'll divide everything in half and then they'll use their discretion and decide. how they're gonna spend the time with kids. And remember, like, if you are already coming off as uncredible, like, for example, the example that you just mentioned, that they were not honest and they may have lied. They don't like that. And they have to trust you. And they could even, like, if you delay the process for lying or for doing something in bad faith, you might be responsible for attorney's fees. Or other, you know. Yeah, you don't want to be responsible for not just your attorney's fees, but for the other side's attorney's fees on, you know, protracted or delayed litigation, which and I use that in my favor for my clients. When I see that it's just delay or delay, I'm OK with filing something and requesting the court like, hey, this is happening. we're requesting fees if this is not resolved in x amount of time like and it's very typical when it comes to discovery because when you are in a contentious or a contested divorce there will be an exchange of finances it's called mandatory disclosure and oftentimes where a party won't give what they're supposed to give within the time frame. I'm very lenient. It's OK. You need more time. I get it. Sometimes I need more time. Sometimes the attorney needs more time. But when it's it's not done in good faith and you kind of you already kind of know when when it's like what you want to suspect.
Mm hmm.
yeah like they're trying to hide something and and then we have we have other tools for that too like subpoenas but i i really i prefer to kind of bring it up to the judge's attention because like i said i love our judges they are so smart i do believe that they just have so many cases but they read their stuff like they read most of our the judges they'll read motions and when they see that things are being done, like they're delaying the process, they get upset. Why? Because they have plenty of cases, they wanna move them. They wanna move. Which is what they do.
Other people are looking for solutions too.
Yeah, exactly. And they could use their discretion to say, no, you're going to be responsible for attorney's fees. I want this all submitted in five days or by the end of this day. So there are tools that we could use to navigate through those issues. But I guess the most important takeaway of this is, you wanna make sure that you're getting the right help that you need and that you have, like your team wants you to get through this, not stay in it as long as you can to get back at someone else because that's, I don't see how that is beneficial to anybody. kids involved, especially when there are kids involved.
No, it benefits no one. No one, even the party who feels the most injured, it benefits you zero. There's nothing about that that makes things better, no matter what they're thinking or feeling at the time, which is why it's important to go through some of that discovery. And it's important to seek counsel. Like if, you know, mental health practitioners exist for a reason, and maybe you need to see somebody, even if it's just to pour out your heart and get those things out and in the open and start healing from that, because then that'll help you start making better decisions. You'll be coming from a clearer mind. You'll be able to, you know, come down from those emotional highs and start making more rational decisions. You mentioned something about affordability, which is huge, and it actually ties in a lot into real estate. Of course, a big subject of a divorce settlement case is usually the home, right? Particularly if they own it, obviously. If they're renting, there could be something else. They might be liable for the lease or whatever, but that's something entirely different when we're talking about their marital asset. A lot of times somebody wants to keep the property, but a lot of times what they fail to realize is that if they bought that home together as a couple, whether it was before or after the marriage, if they united their incomes and qualified for a property, say they were making each $100,000, they qualified together, they were able to buy a property under that premise. When you remove one of those incomes and now you're thinking about maybe even refinancing that property because you have to give a portion of that equity to your soon-to-be ex-spouse, you may or may not qualify to keep that property, let alone if you think you can afford it and you don't mind spending every penny you get from your paycheck to afford it, but the bank may say you can't afford it. So you have to do a lot of that legwork also beforehand to determine whether or not fighting for the house is actually in your best interest or not. You might not be able to keep it, in which case you have no other choice but to sell it because you might not be able to do that on a single income alone. So it's one of those things that There is a lot of research, I would say, to do before that, especially if you have a lot of things in common, like you said, if you've owned a property for a very long time, if you've got cars, art, I don't know, accounts. I'm assuming there's a myriad of other things that people fight over and try to split.
Sometimes, really. I mean, Well, you have sentiment. There are some things that people have sentimental value or they have an attachment. But, you know, going back to what you said about it's so important to seek professional help, especially therapists. I recommend to all of my clients, contested or uncontested, if you need extra assistance, seek out a therapist. It's so it used to be very taboo. It's not anymore. Everybody has this. And I mean, I enjoy the benefit of having a professional therapist. I think that that's super important, even to bounce off ideas, process emotions, and even things like that, like about not being able to afford a property. Those are things that maybe you need to digest that maybe you need to process that because you're gonna move on to a life where you're not gonna be a unit anymore and you're gonna, your life is gonna change. It's gonna change. So if you have your team and you have somebody to talk to about it, it's always better. I mean, I've never seen it to anyone's detriment having a therapist on board. And it's important for employers too because, well, first and foremost, Therapy, you could, most of it is covered in your insurance. So find a therapist that's covered under your insurance. It's extra help you're getting instead of talking to an attorney about these issues that they won't be able to use it. They may be able to charge for it. Talk to a therapist about it. I mean, I think that's, it's great. It works super well. And then again since it's covered under the insurance it's another thing that you it's not another like task or another expense it's actually helping you and then it helps attorneys do their job because you remove the emotion because at the end of the day if you if your attorneys are emotional Like, there's been so many times where it's like, oh, my goodness, this opposing counsel has me up to here because they are not, you know, responsive or they're delaying the process. And then if I get sucked into that, I'm going to try to get fees and I'm going to try to do this against this attorney. But you don't really I mean, what solution am I bringing? You know, right. It's not we don't want to feel the fire. We want solutions. So, yeah, we have tools. We can ask the court for fees and stuff like that. But I'm not going to be arguing back and forth with an attorney about something that is not going to move the case along. If it's something that we don't see eye to eye. Yes, of course. It's always it's it's good to entertain that type of conversation because I want to see where they're coming from. Right. Most of the time, it's not really well founded. It's rooted by emotions and sentiment. And that is great to speak to a therapist, a psychologist or psychiatrist, a professional, a coach even. I know that some people have coaches that help you through the process. Absolutely true.
And they're very effective. They are very effective. I actually do. I know a fantastic divorce coach and a lot of people have come to me to ask me what that is about. It's actually a very serious profession. You have to get certified by a number of accredited sources. And in most cases, a lot of those divorce coaches seek additional training and education. I know this particular divorce coach has been collaboratively trained. She released an incredible book. It's got a lengthy title and I don't remember what it is now. I actually interviewed her many months ago. She's fantastic, but yes, they do exist. And that's actually one of the, it's probably the second most important reason I decided to have this podcast, which is to tell people in some way, shape or form that there are options. Divorce isn't limited to just say, I'm going to find the biggest, baddest bulldog I can find on the yellow pages. I know those don't exist anymore, but for context, that's funny. But I'm not, you know, I have to hire an attorney and it has to be the guy that's going to drag my ex through the mud because I need to, you know, I don't know, I don't want to be taken advantage of and that's the end of it. But really that's not the end of it. This is, and that's the point of this, right? And today's conversation has been really insightful to that point because we're talking about mediation, which is a tool that we have to not go through that horrible litigation process that people think divorce is about. I often joke about it, but it's true that nobody really ever talks about divorce until it's eminent, right? You don't go out with your husband or your boyfriend or your friends and say, you know what? Divorce, I think is a great topic of conversation for tonight's dinner. Nobody brings that up, right? So by the time you get to it, you haven't done any research, you really don't know what to expect, you haven't, chances are you've probably spoken to all the wrong people, because you spoke to your aunt who got a divorce, you know, 15 years ago, you talked to the neighbor about it, you talked to your coworkers about it, none of whom, and that's not to, you know, belittle anybody, but not, they don't have necessarily expert advice, and they don't really know the whole process, they might be speaking from their horrible experience and setting you up for failure. So the idea is to tell people now, in the off chance that something like this were to come down, you know, they were to run into that, say, on their journey in life or their cousin or their neighbor or their friend or their parent, whatever, that there are options. There is more to this. call it, let's call it industry, than just hiring a horrible attorney to fight for your rights and make sure that you get anything and everything that you want. There's a lot more to it. There are real estate professionals, coaches, mental health practitioners. There's more than litigation. There's mediation, collaboration. There's even arbitration. I think arbitration is also a branch or a system that you can go through, I presume, before having to go through a judge. I mean, there are different options, different things that you can do to get past that that difficult time in your life.
Yeah. And that's a great point, too, because most of the time when you do find one professional that is like minded, that once has your best interest in mind, they know other professionals, too, that are like them. And then then the rest is history because it's like, oh, you need to sell your house. I have a realtor that specializes in divorces. has that sensitivity because yes, I have to think logic and I can't get emotional, but I'm still very sensitive and very empathetic to my client. I understand that what they're going through is not easy, but I make it very clear too that because I have to be a certain way, it doesn't mean that I'm dismissing any of their feelings. or anything, because I get it. It's a lot. But it's so much sometimes coming at the same time that they don't see what the solution is. And that's what my job is. And that's why I kind of have to separate that. But luckily, I have professionals like you. I have professionals like Luz who, if they need a therapist, I recommend a sample And that's what's great because if you find a good professional that is good at what they do and they're passionate and they really want to see their clients go through what they have to go through to become the better version of themselves to be ready for the next step, then you know you have that circle. Great. And I'm glad you brought that up because it's very important to speak with professionals. And then once you have a good one, that one will have a referral source, which is true.
It's true. You do bring up a good point, which is that if that professional really is focusing in that particular industry, they're going to be people who have resources at their disposal. And they could be resources that you'd never even imagined existed for that purpose. And that brings me to the NADP, which is the National Association of Divorce Professionals, which you now have attended. And I look forward to having you as a future member, I hope. That's really the goal of that organization really is to provide education and to link like-minded professionals to be able to serve as resources to one another, because obviously I'm not an attorney. You're not a real estate professional. The divorce coach doesn't know anything about finance. the mental health practitioner doesn't know anything about law, so on and so forth. But we aid ourselves by providing education in a professional setting so that we can learn to look for, say, red flags or to know what things may come up in certain instances or whom to look for when certain circumstances pop up, et cetera, and who to refer those people to when those situations do arise, because not everybody specializes in the same thing. For example, you know, Robert Merlin, you know, he is like I always refer to him as a pioneer. He does collaborative law and collaborative law only. So if you ever wanted to hire Bob for litigation, he would say, I'm very sorry, I cannot help you because he absolutely no longer litigates. You know, and then you have Liz Roberto, who does more mediation, and then you have people like, say, Manny Segarra and Claudia Pernutti, who do nothing but litigation for those circumstances where people absolutely need to do that. They just refuse to collaborate or their spouses, you know, have no interest in doing that. You know, the situations can be different. People are different, right? So it's interesting that you mentioned that how your client base reacts and the kind of people that come to you, right? You attract, I think, a certain clientele. You attract the people who have a similar sentiment or a similar mentality of cooperation, people who probably want, you know, to go forward through mediations precisely because you prepare them and you give them that sense of, What's the word I'm looking for? I don't want to say comfort, although that is also true, but you give them a sense of like a solution driven purpose, let's say, right? So people are going to flock to you for that kind of service. But there are people who are maybe, I don't know, far more energized, let's say. or far more emotional, high charged, I don't know, high octane, and they're going to look for the guy or the girl who is like, let's take it all. And so, you know, they're going to fare better with that type of attorney, whatever the outcome is, because, you know, everybody has a different personality and they click, you know, their chemistry might be different. And that's important too. So there are options out there. And I think people need to know that so that they feel that they have the ability to do things a little differently maybe than their predecessors, like their parents. I know who a lot of times say, oh, my mom went through a horrible divorce. My dad went through a horrible divorce. That doesn't have to be true for you. You don't have to stay in a marriage that you absolutely hate, but you also don't have to get a divorce that looks a lot like what your parents went through. So things have changed and there's more at your disposal now.
Yeah. And it's funny that you bring that up because it's it's typically your family that it's come on. Everybody's case is different. And that's right. All the facts are different. What you want may be different. So yes a lot of people have been through divorces but not all the divorces are the same and if you are getting advice and it's it's so funny because sometimes I get calls and it's like well my my tia told me that if I ask for this and it's like well you don't qualify for xyz or you have to ask for this in this manner and look I'll sit here and I'll educate you on all of this with pleasure like I love that But at the same time, don't get stuck. Don't get stuck on something that is not your problem because your facts are completely different. Right. And then because that's the thing. Yes, you have options. But then if you give people too many options, that's true. They don't it doesn't serve them. They don't qualify for it or it's it's backtracking. Then, you know, you have to kind of make that distinction. And that's why it's important. to speak with professionals who can let you know, like, hey, this is a distinction or no, that actually it's very, very low chance that this will happen. If it does, we'll know by this factor. But I don't foresee that. And that also gives people peace of mind because a lot of people, they think about divorce and they're afraid of the process. Yeah. not a pretty picture. Like it's something that people like you mentioned, you don't go to dinner thinking, hey, let's talk about divorce today. How fun. That's just great. Yeah. Which, by the way, apparently there are divorce parties that at some point was a trend for You know, we're from Miami, so we see it all like, you know, parties go. But I mean, bachelorettes and, you know, bachelor parties we've seen, but there's divorce parties. I mean, you sell merchandise and stuff like and ashes and crowns. And that's great. I'm happy for you. And if that's what you love, that's great. But I don't think going into it, people are so excited about it. But I know that Although it's scary, it's a good feeling to be able to finish a chapter that had you in pain, or had you stuck, or just no longer gonna serve you.
Yeah, because you mentioned that earlier, if you were married, we presume that you got married for love and that there was something great and good going for you at the time. And you had a lot of hopes and dreams and you had shared goals, whatever. And then somewhere along the way, something went wrong, right? So yes, you can't hold on to just the good times because all that's gonna do is bring you down thinking, I'm not gonna have this anymore. Something went wrong along the way and now you realize that that is no longer going to serve you going in the future. Something has pained you to the point where you have said, I need to break free from this relationship. And maybe it wasn't your decision. Maybe it was your spouse's decision and you feel like you've been caught off guard and that you have no idea why they're presenting you with this option to divorce, right? Because I've heard that too. But if you really think about it, if this person doesn't want to be with you anymore, whatever that reason might be. And listen, I'm pro marriage. I think marriage is a covenant. I think it's something that we need to take very seriously. I don't necessarily think you need to stay in it if you've been abused or if you really just are terribly unhappy and miserable. I think there are better ways to show your kids, you know, a little bit about life, love and family. And that is an entirely different conversation, but If somebody wants out of the marriage and there's something certainly there that is not working or is going to work in the future, you can't force someone to be next to you and to love you and to contribute to your life's desires. So the future, right? And that's something that I learned also from my own divorce, which is even though it was my decision, even though it was my decision and I suffered through it because I knew that I needed something different. And I remember thinking to myself, This is the hardest decision I ever made. And it took me two years to come to that realization. I went to therapy. And I remember when I told my sister what I thought I wanted, which was to get a divorce, I felt like just, and I don't want to use this word, but I felt like I just threw up. Like I was holding this inside for so long and it was making me sick. And when I told her, I felt like the weight of the world just lifted off my shoulders. And I thought that would be the end of it, right? Okay, this is going to be great. I finally said what I had to say. This is where I need to go. And it's just going to be a straight shot. And it wasn't. It wasn't. Again, even though it was amicable, I was miserable. It was the hardest time after, you know, having lost my mom and my grandmother. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do. And I was very miserable. I had to leave the country for six weeks in order to straighten my life, my thoughts, my heart, everything all over again, because I was in bad shape. But then, The idea that there is hope beyond that is really what kept me going. Because if you get stuck in that idea that, oh my God, I'm not gonna have this person to sleep next to anymore, all these wonderful times, all these memories, all these pictures, all these things, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you're gonna get stuck there. And you're gonna end up just being swallowed up by this idea that is no longer in existence in the past. So you have to look forward and say, what do I have to hope for? And keep that and just keep moving forward, however slow it may be, but you need to be in motion. You need to be in motion.
And you bring up a really good point because people get stuck. And and it's not and I do believe that it's not necessarily because something bad happened or something went wrong in a relationship. People change. It's true. And if and sometimes people get married young, not knowing what they want, and then they figure out what they want and they realize this is not what I want. It's true. there might still be love there, but marriage may not be what a person wants. So you're you're the people that get stuck are the ones that are they're stuck in the idea of somebody that isn't, they're not like that anymore. That this is not who they are anymore. So they're, they're stuck in the idea of a person that doesn't exist. It's a great point. It could also have been what I thought, for example, of my of my spouse, but he maybe he wasn't really like that. So it's kind of like it's it's I don't want to say an illusion, but you could either be stuck in the past or you're stuck in a situation that is it's it's not true. It doesn't exist. So moving past it, it's going to be painful, but you're going to be unstoppable once you get through that, because it's going to be very challenging. Yeah. But once you get through that, it's I mean, you're going to grow, that's for sure. And you're in a better place because you're you're not stuck. Like you said, you're moving, you're in motion, you're not. And that I mean, moving is life. So if that's right, going, you know, you're you're living your life. You're not living in an idea that is not true or in the past or or yeah, in a false reality. Yeah. And once you realize that, that's really, that's a great thing. And I love- That's very empowering. So empowering. And I've seen that transition. I've seen clients start from a really low place. And I don't mean, I mean low, like in they, they don't feel like if they're going to get through it. And when seeing them get through it, that is so rewarding. It's very rewarding.
That's the part. Yeah, that's the part that I look forward to. It's not necessarily going to meet with them and watching them argue and being difficult, let's say, from my point of view, you know, when I'm working on a transaction, them sabotaging or saying, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that today was a showing or we didn't leave you the key or nobody paid the landscaper, we forgot the mortgage, whatever, any of those things. It's not that part, of course not, because that part is very frustrating. And it's very difficult to navigate and to get the parties to cooperate, you know, to get you know, to the other side of that transaction. But it is that part when you get to the other side of the transaction that everything settles and you say, wow, I was able to get through this. Now I have, I don't know, funds to, I don't know, travel the world for the next year to get over my ex. Or, you know, I have money now to move in with, you know, my kids over across town or whatever. I finally got over this. I no longer have to be in this horrible situation. Whatever the case may be, it's that other side. That's the rewarding part when you can see them say, wow, they can breathe a sigh and say, this is finally over. I'm so glad that we got through this and thank you so much for helping me, whatever the case may be. That's the part that's rewarding, to watch them turn the page and say, I did something I thought I wasn't going to be able to do. Because selling your marital asset, again, from my perspective, is a very difficult thing to do, especially if you've had this marital asset for a very long time. I don't know, 15, 20, 30 years, your kids grew up there. That's very difficult. It's not a couple of years of memories. It's almost a lifetime of memories and updates and upgrades and things that you've you know, added to this property that, as you said, carries probably more sentimental value than it does market value sometimes, because that's how you feel, that's how attached you feel to the property. So it's very difficult to tear yourself away from that. But it's when you do and you give people hope for a better future that you say, okay, there is greatness in what it is that you're doing, helping people get through that difficult part.
Yeah, and it doesn't have to come right away either. Once you say for the divorce, I I can't explain how excited I get when I have reached earning client, not because they're getting divorced for some time, but because they're getting married. And yes. And they call me and they're like, look, I'm here. Look where I am. I didn't believe that I could find love again. And I found love and I'm so excited. I'm getting married. I've been invited to weddings, too. I mean, I like to keep my boundaries, but but yeah. And these are these are clients that, you know, were divorcing. And it's a client that I've had that was divorcing comes back. And I have one in mind because he was torn. It was such a sad because I knew he was just he and he would do anything for for his ex-spouse and for his kids. And he found love again and he still has love for his ex-spouse and for his kids. But it's different. It's not in the same romantic way. And when he found love, I was so happy for him because It was a huge transformation. He didn't think he can do it, but he knew he actually took time. Like you mentioned, you took six weeks. He went through. I think it was. Oh, I won't say where it was because I don't want to like call it that. But he went to the other side of the world. Yeah. He got back and he found love and he it was it was great. And I was happy to hear that. And it's really rewarding when you get to that point and everybody can get to that point. Not necessarily that, oh, you're going to find love and you're going to get but you will bond and you will find happiness. Yeah, because when you're at a point of separation, it's because you're not happy.
That's right.
You know, and maybe you haven't been happy for a long time, but it takes a while to get to the point to have the strength to move forward with a separation. You're absolutely right. And like you said, sometimes people may stay together because they don't want a divorce. But why would you? I mean, it's OK if you do, that's you. But there's better things out there and you have to take the first step. That's right. And there's people to support you. There's professionals that can support you. You have family. If you don't have family, you can have friends. If you don't have friends, you have therapy, you have professionals. There are resources, there are options. There are teams that can help you get through it. And once you get through it, you'll find your own happiness. You will. It's only gonna get better. It doesn't get worse, that's for sure.
That's right. The only thing you need is you have to be willing. You have to be willing. That's it. And you mentioned something that I've seen a lot of couples do, which is they stay married, quote unquote, because of the children. And I've brought this up before, and obviously it's an opinion. I don't necessarily think that there's anything... to support, you know, any facts to support what I'm about to say. But I think for the most part, it's the fear of losing or the fear of missing out or the fear of separation and going through divorce is crippling to the point where somebody would rather be miserable, sleeping in a different bedroom and arguing with their spouse for decades out of time. They'd rather do that. They'd rather do that. The fear is so crippling that they'd rather stay in their current situation. But what I want to say to people who are in that situation is, again, I'm pro-marriage. So if you can fix it, fix it. If you loved each other enough to get married and have children and buy a house and formulate a life together, then find a way to fix it. It could be small. It could be something that you're not understanding or something that was a miscommunication. or maybe you can work on things and grow together and save that relationship. But if you cannot, please don't think that you're doing your kids a favor and use that as your reason to stay in that marriage, because you may or may not realize it, but that's the example you're giving to your kids of what to look for and hope for in the future, a loveless marriage. There are instances in which someone says, I don't ever want a relationship like the one my parents had. But you can't count on that because every kid is different. My sister and I were born and raised in the same exact home, and she and I could not be any more different. I'm telling you, the way we think everything, it's unbelievable how different she and I, we are black and white night and day. and she has a completely different response system to that sort of stimuli. Whereas I'm completely emotional and I don't react the same way she does. And I tell her all the time, sometimes I wish I was more like you because I could make more rational decisions as opposed to emotional ones. So my point is that you can raise two kids, 10 kids in the same environment, and maybe one will say, you know what? I wanna do things differently or things better. And everyone else may get stuck. emulating exactly what you showed them for the last 18, 20, 30 years. So don't use your kids as an excuse, but find help, find a counselor, find a licensed mental health practitioner who specializes in couples therapy. There are even sex therapists. That's a legitimate, what do you call it? Psychology branch of psychology. Yeah, it's a legitimate field. Go to a sex therapist, figure out what's going on and work it out. don't assume that you are doing yourself a favor by avoiding the difficulty or the uncomfortable feeling of going through the difficult talks, you know, and considering divorce as an option if you think that's your only way out.
Right. And you make also a good point, because if you're going to stay for the kids, you're not a martyr. Like, and I always I always tell my clients, like things There may have been really bad things that have happened, but you're not a victim. You're a warrior. We're going to get through this and you're going to get through it because then we don't want to do labels. We don't want to say, you know, someone's a victim or someone is a martyr because then you're going to start falling into that role and you're not. Right. You're going to do it. And but you like you said, you have to kind of do the first step. And it's hard, but you have to be willing. And if once you get there and sometimes sometimes you may not even have a choice because the court is not going to keep you married just to keep you married. Right. Of course, you did. Florida is a no fault state. If if one party falls for divorce, you will be divorced. There's no way that you're going to force someone to stay.
Right. With for the rest of your life. Right.
And it's only going to make it harder. So maybe maybe it wasn't your choice. But now that this is happening, the way you choose to show up, the way that you react to it, it's really gonna set the tone. And you wanna be able to see yourself get through it because there's nothing more empowering than going through a struggle and seeing, hey, I did it. It could be running a mile. It could be selling a house. It could be divorcing someone, getting your law license. It's very rewarding. And especially when you feel, especially when it wasn't your choice, And when you feel that you couldn't go through it, and then that's just when you get to that point, anything is possible. Like that's how you shift your mind. Your mindset will shift and you will realize that really what you want, anything is possible.
That's right. You just need to take control of your situation, right? You need to take control of yourself, your situation, and make sure that you're in the driver's seat of your own life, basically. And that reminds me, did you ever read that book or see the movie, maybe Eat, Pray, Love?
Oh, yeah. I saw the movie and I read the book.
I did both. Yes, I did both also. And I remember I actually I read it during my my separation and my divorce. And she said that exactly that. I think she mentioned it somewhere in the book. She said, you have to be the driver. You have to be in the driver's seat of your own life. You have to be you can't let somebody else decide where you're going to go or what you're going to do or how you're going to feel. You have to be the person to decide those things.
Yeah, absolutely. And some people think, well, I have no choice. But at the end of the day, yeah, you do. You you are the only one that is responsible and can control yourself. Right. And when you when you realize that, that itself is empowering, because everybody has a choice. Some people may not know that or may not believe they do, but they do. And When I see my clients, when it clicks, like you kind of see it click, it's so rewarding. It's like, it's a proud moment. And books are very helpful. Like if you don't want to do therapy, books are game changing too. Sure. Oh yeah. Even podcasts, audibles, like audio books. If you don't want to read, you can listen. That's true. So great. I mean, I personally, I listen to a lot of like divorce and separation stuff just so that I can better educate myself on how to address certain issues. And if I were going through it, I would find it very, very helpful because it's, you know, sometimes somebody says something in a certain way and it clicks, but all you need is for that realization, for that click. And once you know, Once you have the aha moment, that's when you can actively change things because if you don't see it, it's not until you see the problem or the issue or whatever it is that you realize that you have the ability to actually change it. The knowledge and understanding and that click and the aha, that's the first step. So you might feel like you're far behind, but Getting into that step is a huge deal. Yeah, there's a lot to go, but once you're at that step, it's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time and, you know, and the process. So you gotta, that's another thing, you have to trust the process. And I sometimes hate it when I hear people tell me that, but because it's true.
No one ever wants to face it, but yeah, it's true.
Gotta trust the process and it's like, oh my goodness, but the process takes a while sometimes. Yep, but you have to trust and at the end of the day, it's true.
Yeah, it is. It is. I actually read a book that made all the difference for me, believe it or not, when I was stuck figuring out whether or not I should stay or go. And it's a super simple book, easy read. You could probably read it in an hour or less. And the title of the book is Who Moved My Cheese? It's a very simple book. It's not about divorce, but it's about choices. So you mentioned that, and I think it's key here. Choices don't come in a menu like you get at the cheesecake factory. You're not always going to have 736 choices to make. Choices come in twos sometimes. Sometimes a choice is yes or no. So people don't realize that when they say you have a choice in every single circumstance, like, no, I don't. He put me against the wall and I didn't have a choice. Sure. You had a choice to react or not to react. That's a choice. You know, so people forget that choices don't always come in a plethora of colors or, you know, or a spectrum of colors, whatever. That's not necessarily how choices come. But if you are stuck, I would highly recommend that book. It's, Who Moved My Cheese? I don't remember the name of the author at this point, but it's very easy to find. They actually make them now for kids and for teens. So they have three versions of that book for children, teens, and adults. I obviously read the adult version years ago, and I highly recommend it for anybody who feels stuck and they can't. It's a super easy read, but it's so clear that you cannot miss the message. It's really, really empowering. I highly recommend it.
It's funny you bring that up because my therapist or my previous therapist recommended that book. It's because, and I think if I remember correctly, there's, it's more than one situation, but it's, and I picture it like a cartoon, really, because- I do too. And it's something very simple, but it clicks. It does. For me, it clicked. It did a click. It's a revelation, that book. Because you realize that you, it's, it shows you how people get stuck and it just shows you and how easy it is to get stuck. oh well it's always been this way is because I remember like there was I guess the cheese was always there and it was always this way and then the other side is like well it's not like this anymore so we got to do something about it and then these these mice were like no but it's always been this way so I'm gonna expect it to be like this tomorrow But no, like it's not always like that. And that may not be your choice. Your choice, things change. So that's not your choice. But what is your choice? What are you going to do about it? That is your choice. Your next step. And if you want to continue in it, OK, continuing it is your choice. Or if you want to change it, change it. But whichever way you go, it's that's the choice that you have. And yeah, I'm so happy you brought that book up because that's another one.
I gotta reread at some point. I love that book. I'm telling you, it was such a simple read. It's almost silly, but it's a revelation. It really is. And I highly recommend it. And just to, I guess, to close it off, I love movies. Most people who know me know that. And I don't know if you remember in Little Mermaid, Ursula tells the Little Mermaid, life's full of choices. And it's true. Life is full of choices. From the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep, you have a choice one way or another. You can choose a great professional to help you with your divorce process. You can choose to read a good book or not. You can choose to respond or not respond to your husband. You can choose to, I don't know, work on your marriage. You have choices. All day, every day, just be mindful of what those choices might be and make sure that you're making a choice that's in line with your goals.
Yeah, absolutely. And if you need help making those choices, that's what professionals are for. And I highly recommend therapy that I can't say enough.
Me too. Me too. Thank you so much.
Yes. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing you again and having another conversation with you.
I do too. Actually, I can't wait. I think our I think we mentioned our air. What is it? Our broadcasting is May 2. Does it come out that same week or?
So we're going to film May 2nd. And for those of you who don't know, this is on local television, but we will have the link and we can cross-reference that and it's all in Spanish. So that's exciting. I could tell you the date right now. I know that we're filming on the 2nd and then it will air on the Sunday. So that will be on the 5th.
Fantastic. I can't wait. It's going to be fun. Thank you so much Raquel for having me. Thank you so much for participating. I loved having you. I loved this conversation. I look forward to seeing you soon. Bye. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The Real Talk. We sure do appreciate it. If you haven't already done so, be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you consume podcasts. This way you'll get updates as new episodes become available. And if you found value in today's show, we'd appreciate it if you would help others discover this podcast. Until next time.