In episode 40 of The Real Talk, Raquel Ramirez interviews Michelle Suarez, a divorce broker and attorney with 20 years of experience in various legal areas. Michelle shares her personal journey through divorce and how it inspired her to create a unique service to help women navigate the divorce process with confidence and clarity.
Tune in to learn more about Michelle's unique approach to supporting women through divorce.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:01:57] Women in Divorce Process.
[00:06:29] Navigating Financial Complexities Post-Divorce.
[00:09:48] Divorce and Helping Others.
[00:12:40] The Importance of Child Therapy.
[00:15:33] The Impact of Childhood Experiences.
[00:18:43] Coping with Challenging Divorces.
[00:23:41] Building a Support Network.
[00:26:55] Getting to Know Spouse After Divorce.
[00:30:03] Amicable Divorce Processes.
[00:33:42] Estate Plan Oversight After Divorce.
[00:37:25] Divorce Process Services.
[00:39:40] The Challenges of Divorce.
[00:43:00] Importance of Hiring Right Professionals.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Raquel Ramirez
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/featured_properties_intl/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/featuredre
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-ramirez/
Michelle Suarez
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/divorcebrokerofficial
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-suarez-01328270/
WEBSITES:
The Real Talk: https://www.therealtalkpodcast.net/
Featured Properties International: https://msha.ke/featuredre
The Divorce Broker: https://thedivorcebroker.com/
Welcome to The Real Talk. I'm Raquel Ramirez, your host and real estate professional here to bring you insightful conversations, expert advice, and powerful stories about what really goes on in life, love, divorce, and real estate. Are you ready?
Raquel Ramirez
Let's get real.
Well, hello and welcome to The Real Talk podcast. How are you today? I'm doing well.
Raquel Ramirez
Thank you for having me.
Oh, it's so great to have you. I'm really happy to have circled back. And thank you for joining me today. For those of you who are tuning in, I am speaking today to Michelle Suarez. And Michelle Suarez is actually a divorce broker. I'm sure you're wondering what that means. And she's going to get into that in just a second. But I want to tell you a little bit about her. She is not just a divorce broker. She's actually an attorney with experience in real estate trusts and estates, corporate and family. She's been an attorney actually for 20 years and different areas of law, as I mentioned. Having gone through the divorce process herself, though, she found that like me, many women are at an extraordinary disadvantage in getting legal and practical advice, which for my listeners, I know they've heard me say that time and time again, that there really wasn't any, there weren't any resources at the time that were really specific to helping people go through the divorce process. I mean, outside of, you know, matrimonial law. And until now, guidance hasn't been available, right? Unless you knew the right questions to ask. Advice was coming too late and at a high cost. And well, that's why you founded a divorce broker. And it says here in my notes that you also provide services to women who may be contemplating divorce. and need advice or guidance on how to prepare next steps, prenuptials and postnuptial agreements, which obviously with your legal background is a huge, huge advantage for those who seek your help. So I guess in your own words, tell us a little bit about you and how this came to be.
Sure well when I went through my own divorce process and the entire time I kept thinking how is it that women do this because you're so emotional and it's really you need to look at it almost as a business because if now you get caught up in the emotions and And that just leads to a lot of issues. But who do you call? What do you do? You know, you either hopefully you have your therapist, but other than that, you have your divorce attorney, which is in the middle of it. And every time you contact them, it's one question and you leave with 30 other questions, which is usually what happens. And so when I was going through that, I had the benefit of being an attorney and I knew what to ask generally. And I also had a very good support system in the sense that, you know, my best friend is also an attorney, my other friend is an accountant. So people that I can reach out to and call and say, hey, I have a question on this. So a lot of women don't have that benefit, and they probably don't even know what questions to ask, like I said earlier. So it just kept resonating in the back of my mind, like, how are women doing this that don't have the resources that I do and the ability to to call someone so fast forward a few months and that's where divorce divorce broker started and what I do is let me go back I do the prenups, postnups, a lot of women just need that, you know, to review their prenups, to review their postnups, to see where they're at, or if they're going to sign one. Sometimes they have an attorney and they just want clarification and they don't want an extra set of eyes.
Yeah.
Yes. So I do that. And preparing as a divorce broker is more like It doesn't mean they're getting divorced. Some people are and some people aren't. But I have clients that have stopped working. And so their concern is, you know, what are the things that I need to look into? What should I be doing with my finances? What should I? Yeah, my will, my trust, like what's the big picture item? What should I be doing? What should I look for? What should I work with my husband together so that we have a better future in that sense and they don't feel the insecurity. So there's clients that help with that and there's clients that are have been shocked with the news of divorce. So what do you do? They have nowhere to they just don't know where to start. Yeah. Right. Yeah. What's next? What do you do? So I help them. I guide them. We go through, you know, what they want to do in the future, what they see themselves, what they're going through now through their finances. And they need it was very complex finances. So, you know, I refer them out to professionals. So so that they have a the best case scenario, know what's going on. And a lot of times you get caught up in friends that have gone through the same, through divorce, and they're giving you their advice. And every divorce is different. Every single one. That's 100% true.
Yes. I'm glad you said that. And it makes perfect sense, right? That what you're doing is you're providing sort of a big picture view, right? Because there are a lot of little moving parts. And as you said, every divorce is different. So what may apply to you may may not apply to your sister or your friend or your neighbor or the person down the street. Right. But you you don't know. Right. Especially if it comes like, let's say, from left field and you weren't expecting that your husband, in this case, let's say, wants to get a divorce. Now you're really caught off guard. You have no idea exactly what you said. You don't know what to do, what to save. What's the next step? Do you call an attorney? Do you not call an attorney? Do you call a financial planner? Do you go to your bank and pull out every dime you've ever saved? Do you tell your kids? Do you change the name on the phone bill, on the FPL bill? Do you call a realtor? I mean, it's a lot. Do you call your parents? I mean, even something as simple as that can be a very daunting idea. Overwhelming, I think, for some people, because as you mentioned before we got on air, which was that you get so much stuck in your feelings, whether it's out of fear or disappointment or hurt, or divorce at the end of the day is a form of loss. And so while you're grieving that process, you're probably not making very rational decisions. So even if you have a good grip on things, you probably need say an expert like you to be able to look at everything and say, okay, these are the things that are a part of this process. This is probably when you want to focus your attention on let's take this one step at a time and then give them some guidance, right? Which I presume is what you do to help them start putting one foot forward.
Exactly. Like I said, with them, and I, you know, depending on their needs, we go over, what are your finances, we gather documents, we, we look at their big picture. Actually, we look at we analyze every aspect of their life that they need help in. And we go through it. And, you know, it means in me referring them to other professionals, like therapists, sometimes for the kids, you know, oh, yeah, financial, if they need to sell the house, you know, that's a big deal. And it's an issue because a lot of people don't want to sell their house that they've been through. So you kind of go and see what they want to do, what their goal is ultimately, and how you can help them get there without spending thousands of dollars so that when they go to the attorney, they kind of have a good base and a good realistic, this is my best scenario, this is my worst scenario. These women are empowered and can make decisions because now they have knowledge of what their options are.
Yeah, they have firm footing is what you say. A lot of times they get to an attorney and it almost feels like they're not starting at ground zero. They're starting below that and they have a lot of catching up to do. And then, of course, meanwhile, the clock is ticking and they're getting billed for every minute and every second that they are bothering their attorneys with questions that they could potentially have answered before they get to their first meeting or their second meeting, which is ideal. And you mentioned, obviously, the part about the financials, you know, assuming they go through a traditional divorce where they have to you know, go through the financial affidavit process, which is grueling. I've never had to do it personally because in my divorce, we didn't argue about finances. We just split everything down the middle and we were happy-go-lucky. But there are those cases, yeah, where you have to basically pour everything you've got onto these sheets of paper, and it could be really, really frustrating. And they don't know where to start. Right.
It's frustrating. It's intimidating. You may not know where to get the information or it's it's a very it's a very upsetting time for if you're going through it. So my whole purpose was, you know, I know I want to help you. I want to I want to help you figure out what you need and get you there so that it's at least less of the burden or, you know, less emotional.
Yeah. Yeah. We can't take it away from them. The divorce is if it's eminent and it's happening, that's, you know, you have to go through it. Fine. But the idea is to help these people in that process to make it sting a little less. Right.
Exactly. So it's it's been very it's very rewarding for me every time I work with a client. Yeah. We talked about it's rewarding. It feels so good when you're able to help. Yeah. A woman that's she just so vulnerable, so delicate the stage that she's in, and you're able to actually make a difference in her world. You know, it's very rewarding. So I really enjoy what I'm doing in the sense that I can help them. It's a little heartbreaking many times. So you get past your, you know, you kind of grieve with them, right? Sometimes, yeah. So it's getting past that. But at the end, it's such a, rewarding feeling, you know, because you want them to see their light at the end of the tunnel, too.
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of times they do feel stuck. And you mentioned something about the kids, which is something that I'm just oddly enough, I'm just remembering one of my most touching cases. started off as a question about the children. I'll never forget it. I got a call. I was driving on the 826 and I was going to get off. I think it was in one of the Doral exits and I picked up a call. And the very first thing that this, this gentleman actually asked me was, uh, Hey Raquel, I got your, you know, he said, Hey Raquel, I got your information from somebody who had referred me to you. I have a question for you. And I mean, it was just very quickly and I said, OK, very nice to meet you. Sure. And he says to me, listen, I'm thinking about getting a divorce and I just really want to know what are you going to do about the kids? And I said, well, that's a very forward and very specific question. I said, well, you know, the lawyerly answer is it depends, you know. And then we got into that conversation and his his concern was mostly about what does the process entail and how can we spare the children? They had two little little girls. How can we spare the children from getting wrapped up in the wholesale and getting hurt throughout the process and stuff? You know, there's only so much a professional can do. But, you know, we got into that conversation. And then as it turns out, even though it seemed like he was the most concerning parent, it really wasn't. It didn't seem that way, let's say, as we got deeper and deeper into the process. And that was really That was really eye-opening, I think, at one point, right? Because even though I'm in a relationship where, you know, obviously we have a blended family, you see things, you know, from a different perspective, and then you deal, say, with other families and their broken homes or their blended families, and you can see there's certainly differences in dynamics. But it still surprises me sometimes to see how certain parents will alienate their children or fail to consider them really in that process. And that's actually something really important, I think, to most of us, especially those, let's say, who are in different professional organizations like the NADP. It's something that we harp on a lot. And so you mentioned, you know, all of that, you know, background and all of that said, you mentioned the kids and you mentioned also therapy, which I think is huge. And for anybody who's listening, there is really never, I mean, if the kid is an infant in a carriage, you know, we're like a year, two years old and he's not communicating. up to I think the age of three, I don't think they have any form of memorization. I don't think they can actually store anything in their memories. But past that, you're really never too young to start dealing with your trauma. Don't let your kids carry that on into their 30s and 40s. You know what I mean? I agree.
I agree. And it's so important for parents, and I say this all the time, to focus on the kids, not involve them in the divorce. You know what I mean? Leave them out of it. While you're negotiating, if you're mad at your spouse or you know there's a whole issue, keep them outside of it as much as possible. They're already hurting because their family's falling apart, right? And what they know is no longer going to be. So then it just gets worse if they negotiate the kid, the kids, you know, if they make them- They use them as pawns. Yes. And that still happens and it happens a lot and it's awful, but those kids definitely need therapy. I think, but even if you're going through a normal, you know, less, not normal, but a less conflicting divorce, it's important for kids to have therapy.
I think so too. I think so too. And to this point, I was having a conversation with a group of women over the weekend. And it may seem completely off topic, but hear me out. So one of them was talking about how, as a child, she was told that she and her sister were going to come, were going to be sent. They were in Cuba. They were going to be sent to the U.S. They were little kids. I mean, I didn't catch their age, but judging by the description, they must have been, I don't know, like 10, 11, 12 years old. And they were going to send them through the Peter Pan program. So alone, you know, so their parents were going to stay. And one of the girls was very, very close to her father. And It is only now as an old lady that she finally confessed that to someone saying that she spent almost her entire life resenting that her father would choose her to send her, you know, to a foreign country with nobody to fend for her, to protect her, to save her. And she thought in her mind as a kid that it was that her father didn't love her anymore. And of course, it couldn't be further from the truth. But the point is that as a child, before you have all this malice and all this experience and, you know, whatever life throws at you, you have very innocent thoughts, but you do have thoughts that could bury themselves or furrow themselves into your soul that cause a lot of pain and could very well not just leave a lasting impression, but determine the course of your life. Absolutely. Yeah. Why wouldn't you talk about that early on? Listen, and he may have. And I believe. Right. I don't know these people, but I believe he had a very good reason to send her. He was trying to save her. It's because he loved her that he chose the girls instead of the boys. Right. To go first. But she doesn't know that. So she made that story up in her mind and he didn't have a conversation with her about it. And she never went to therapy about it. and like 70 years later, you know what I mean? Yeah.
What is the need for that? No. And it carves your whole life. Can you imagine thinking your dad doesn't love you? Yes. When it's the exact opposite, like how is that right?
How different could her life had been? Had she dealt with that?
Yeah, because it affected probably her, who, how she, how she viewed herself, her relationships. Yeah, it's it's a very sad thing, but it's also new. The whole thing of therapy. I think now it's easier for people to go to therapy and realize the importance of therapy. And before, at least growing up for for me, and I remember thinking, oh, my God, therapy, are you kidding me? Right.
You know, are you crazy? Yeah. Do you mean that way?
Right. Right. So that was the thing in the past. So it's good to see that today's world is definitely open to going to therapy, going over your issues, discussing, you know, not that it's taboo when you've gone through, it's actually an experience that you need to share it. So that's important.
There are different therapists and that's for anybody who's listening, who's interested in that you want to, depending on the age of your children, not so much for adults, because once you're an adult, I think that bracket opens up, but there are psychologists who deal specifically, say, with younger kids under the age of like eight or 10, and psychologists who deal with teenagers, and psychologists who deal with young adolescents. They're different, and I presume the approach is vastly different. If you're speaking with a six or seven-year-old, it doesn't have the same comprehension as a 14 or 15-year-old, or even an 11-year-old or an 18-year-old. So those things are, you know, and how about, I had a case like that, that was heartbreaking.
Kids who have some form of a disability, that is heart wrenching.
I've had one case like that where the child was, I think about 15 years old. And he was severely autistic. I mean, I'm talking about impaired motor skills. It was just heartbreaking. And that was a horrible divorce. And the mom, she had to quit her job. you know, when he was very young, right, to take care of him. And throughout the divorce, the husband decided he was going to hold off on the funds that he owed due to the settlement agreement they were trying to negotiate. And she couldn't get a job. So how could you How could you manage in that situation where you have no income, no money and no one? She was a foreigner. She couldn't rely on anybody here because there was nobody to care for the child, never mind that he required very specific care. And then she didn't have any money to be able to put him in a special school. And the guy was, you know, he was he was basically fleeing because there was no way the attorneys can get a hold of him. And then he would move his funds and then he would pretend to play ball and then he would disappear again. And this was for years. This was a son.
That is awful. You see certain things. Yeah. How could you do that to your own child? Right. Yeah. I need you the most. I need you more than most, you know, cause he's, yeah, it's horrible. And it's heartbreaking.
The lady, she was tough as nails. The times that I met with her and I worked very closely with her, um, for, for some time, uh, she was tough as nails. I mean, wow, what a person to say, I'm not going to let this get to me, but I got to fight my way through this in order to give my kid the attention. And it was incredible. I would call the attorney who was representing her sometimes and say, I just left so-and-so's house and I just, you know, wanted to talk about it for a little bit. And luckily, she was open to doing that because I needed to vent a little bit, but also to commend her for her efforts in pushing through that divorce, even while there were there was this long waiting game, you know, very frustrating, very, very frustrating. But yes, you see, every divorce is different. Every family is different. Everybody's different. And you never know.
And you never know. You assume we're all the same. You have the kids, you go to school, you see them. And truthfully, no. No, you don't. Behind those doors, everybody has such a unique way of dealing with finances, dealing with each other. There's so many. issues. It's so different. And whenever I get clients, there's never any that I say, oh, it's the same issue. Never.
No, no, never. The only issue is that they want a divorce or check this place. Never. And that they have a house. Right. And not even that. Sometimes they're renting, but yeah.
But leading up to it's so different every single time. A hundred percent. Which, which that's why I say, don't get advice from your, I mean, try to seek professional advice if you can, because If not, you just start getting ideas into your mind when it really isn't even applicable to you. So that only makes you stress out, more anxiety. Yeah.
And it could add fuel to the fire.
Absolutely. Of course, because now you're like, oh, you may have done this. Now let's look into that. And it gets more costly too, right? Yeah. My big advice is try not to listen to the outside, you know, try to focus in on your specifics, on your professionals, on your issues, and ultimately what you want And then hopefully, you know, once they become my clients, we see different areas that we can negotiate, you know?
Right. Right. Because you're a neutral party, which is a big, which is a big detail to consider, right? Because you would think that you talk to your mom, your sister, your grandma, that maybe your distant aunt or cousin, but those people are too close to you. Yes. And give you impartial advice. And you think, well, who better than to go to my mom or who better than to go to my sister? Because they are, you know, they love me unconditionally. They're going to have my back. True. But they're also hurting in that process, too. And it's impossible for them to give you impartial advice.
Yeah, they're emotionally involved as well because they want the best for their daughter or sister or cousin, you know. Right.
Go to them for support. Yeah. Go to them for support. You're going to need that for sure. But not for advice.
Yes, it's true. Definitely not legal advice or even until you want to change your hair color. Ask them all day long, but go to dinners to do the self care with them, which I think is so important as well. Yes. You know, taking care of yourself while you're going through the process. Right. Right. You know, trying to have those moments that you can step away from your situation. Yeah. And have some downtime, I think, is really important. Yeah. Getting through it. So you're not overwhelmed and you need to deal with your children if there are children. And you know, so I think know yourself, know yourself.
And I think that applies to both men and women. Some at some point you lose sight of. who you were before or who you can be outside of this relationship? What are the things that you really like or what are some of the things that you wanted to try and you never got around to because you were too busy sharing a life or creating a life or putting your needs and your wants, you know, second or third to someone else's? So I think that's a good time to reflect on that. And you can only do that if you're soothing, right? Not if you're upset and angry and thinking the worst and trying to move pieces, you know, to like on a chessboard, right? You know, if I do this and maybe he'll do that, leave that outside of, of I guess the dynamic, right? And you can do that, right. When you seek professional counsel and guidance from somebody like you, because again, you're looking at the big picture and you're looking at it coolly as opposed to emotionally.
Yes, and I have a great network, like a resource for my clients that I can, you know, if they need therapists, I refer them to certain therapists, if they need certain attorneys, financial advisors, and, you know, real estate agents like yourself that are, you know, this is what you deal with people that are suffering in the same divorces, and that's a big deal. So it's important to have a really good network. that you can refer your clients to that are going to be sensitive to their issues, you know?
That's right. That is huge. People don't realize that there could be a lot more. They could require a lot more in the way of services than just, say, a matrimonial attorney. It could be a CPA. It could be a financial plan. It could be an estate planning attorney. It could be a bankruptcy attorney. You may not even know that you're in the hole because your husband who carries the books has never told you that you guys are on the verge of filing for bankruptcy. Even a banker, you know, a local banker that could help you, you know, start a savings plan. It could be obviously a real estate professional, could be an inspector. It is maybe you need to really figure out what is the condition of this home if you're not a homemaker, whether you're the guy or the girl doesn't matter and you don't know the status of your home. I mean, there's so many moving parts. Yes.
So many issues that come to light. It's exhausting, yeah. It is. So hopefully what we can do is help them, guide them, give them legal advice or just guidance, referrals, you know, ease that pain, that, you know, that stress a little bit. Right. Which I think in the end, it's a whole lot because once you know it, once you know knowledge is power and once you know what's going to happen and you're realistic about it, you know, And you can face it. It's it's much easier to get through it, I think.
Yeah. So I just to clear it up, I guess, for people, do you practice at all matrimonial law or do you just leave it to limit yourself to just the prep work so that you can help them in that way?
So I do know I do both, but I don't I will not do anything contested, which means we're going to litigate. I don't, you know, I do, I work with an attorney seamlessly, right? So what I mean by that is I have a few attorneys that I work with that I can say, you know, I have your case and I've, we've gotten this far. And for whatever reason, your ex doesn't want to negotiate. He, you know, whatever the issue is, you can't, it's becoming now. Cause a lot of, I think a lot of times people start the divorce thinking, Oh, we can we can do this. We get along. It's amicable. And we're going to go through this process and it's going to be fine. You know, and a lot of times that's not the case, because when you might be negotiating for two years and then all of a sudden it's we're litigating. Right. Yeah. So it's like a seamless transition. I try for my clients so that if we do need to go into litigation, you know what? We've worked together. I I get the attorney up to date. on where we're at in your case, so it almost becomes seamless, you know? And of course, the client has to be in, you know, she chooses which attorney.
Of course, she wants representing her, right?
Right, but, you know, it's as seamless as, you know, it can be. But so I do do stuff that say we can negotiate it and we're done and just file, that would be great. That's what everyone would like, right? Right, right. But you need, but you can't negotiate until you've known where you stand, right? That's right. That's right. So this is, it just, it's like a smoother transition maybe, if you will.
Yeah, no, for sure. And I don't know about you, but if I had a dime for every time somebody told me, I would have never guessed that my husband would have said or done X. I would have never imagined my wife to come up with this. And it's funny in those times, you know, I tried to add some levity to the situation and I typically say, well, you know, we think we know who we sleep with, but at the end of the day, you really only get to know your spouse when you get a divorce.
And that's what they say. And it's true. It's yeah, it's just so many ugly. I mean, yeah, it's and it's also because at that point, so many emotions come in. Mm hmm. The spouse may want to just, you know, there's they're so angry, whoever, you know, there's so many circumstances, but then you can't negotiate. They can't see clearly. Yeah, no. Then two hundred thousand dollars later, right after they pay their divorce, then they're like, oh, but, you know, there are a lot of times I'm still hopeful when I get a client and they're like, I think we can maybe negotiate and get it done. I'm still hopeful that that can happen. I think it just takes a lot of patience.
Yeah, that too.
That's from both parties. Yeah. And kind of they have to be somewhat on the same page. You can only control what you want. You can't control what.
That's right.
The spouse wants.
So, you know, it's a big part of mediation. Yeah.
Yeah. It's like, don't beat yourself up if you tried your best and they didn't come around. You did all you could.
Yeah, you remember that there are some things just not worth fighting for. Exactly. There are. I mean, and I know that we're talking, obviously, about like worst case scenarios and contentious divorces. And when spouses are uncooperative, there is also the other the opposite end of the spectrum, which are spouses who are amicable, who are men who are gentlemanly, women who are respectful. And despite, you know, their pain and their anguish and however many years they've been married, they can handle it with finesse and they get through it. And even if it takes a year or two, because they've got a lot of assets or businesses that they need to divvy up, they can still make it through very elegantly. But, you know, I guess for sake of conversation, we're erring to the other side. Um, but, uh, and actually I don't even remember where I was going with that, but, um, actually I just, I did totally just lose my train of thought.
I'll go back and I will say that's true. There's a lot of people that handle it in such a nice way. And it's so great to see these men step up to the plate and actually do what they said they were going to do or, you know, follow through or. make it put their kids, you know, make them a priority and their ex wife, which is very hard to do. Yes. And I see it a lot in it. And it's kind of I. I love to see it.
Yes, I do. I've thanked some of the parties before, you know, for saying, you know, at the end of the transaction, when that as far as I'm involved, I have had the privilege of thanking both the gentlemen and the women and saying, thank you for making this process, you know, tolerable for each other, because you were very kind during the process, very cooperative. I try to highlight that to let them know that it's something that we see as professionals. We don't always get to see that kind of behavior. But now I remember what we were talking about, which was, you know, a lot of times you get caught up in fighting over the spoons, you know, or for pennies on the dollar. And then all you're doing is dragging it out, sometimes out of spite and sometimes, you know, because you're angry and you can't see or think straight. And so the goal, I think maybe also in working with someone like you is to get that, you know, that again, the neutral perspective to say, this probably really isn't worth it. Do you really want to drag this out for another six months to get an extra $6,000?
I mean, yes, absolutely. It's kind of giving them, and you know, where you're caught up and they're caught up in that, you know, can't get out of that scenario. You give them a different perspective and you lay out, you know, they come around and a lot of times they're like, oh my God, you're right. Why am I fighting for this?
You know, so. Have you ever attended mediation with any of your clients? No, I have not. No.
No, I've attended mediation.
Yeah, I figured. But maybe on this end, like I was wondering if you would attend with them. Is that something that you'd be willing to do?
Absolutely. Yes. I haven't done it because it hasn't come up yet.
But should they want you there? Yeah, you can do that.
Right. If they want me there and they need, you know, sometimes I prepare them before the mediation so that they know what, you know, they're more comfortable being like, you know, oh, my gosh, you know, it's hard to be in a room with him or whatever the case is. So we kind of talk through that. And if they want me to go to mediation, absolutely. I say, you know, I'll sit with them. and, you know, guide them there or be a support, you know?
Right, right, right. And I know because I was reading your bio a few minutes ago, you talked about trust in estates. That is something that actually does have a role in the divorce process if you have, let's say, a trust or if you have an estate plan that includes your spouse. Right. How involved can you or do you get in those cases where there is estate planning already pre...
Well, it's a lot of the times it's going through their, you know, their documents to, you know, some of these documents were done 20 years ago, 10 years ago, right? You know, when they when they didn't have kids when they didn't have kids. And all these documents once you go once you get divorced, have to be revised. Yeah, you know, exactly. Now you're not leaving your spouse alone. life insurance policy or in this trust. And the will. So you need to update everything. So I have them walk, you know, I walk them through that, at least bring awareness. Okay, so this is what this says. And you negotiate certain things within those documents as well. But as far as drafting, I usually send them, refer them, depending on the complexity, right? But I'm able to, because of my experience of all these years and the different things that I've done, I can point issues, you know, give them that we need to change this. We need to do that. Things that they don't know, they, you know, they never do not trust in the state attorneys. And they did this 20 years ago. They don't remember, they don't even know the ramifications now when the laws have changed. So I usually refer them out to, you know, the attorneys that I work with, trust and estate attorneys, right. To help them redraft. It depends on the complexity, like I said. Yeah, definitely. It's, I let them handle it, but I do. I'm able to point out all the issues and maybe there's certain trust that they don't have to change because it didn't involve their spouse, their ex spouse, you know. So they just want me to read this document and let me know. And that's what we do.
So, yeah. I wonder, I wonder how many, I mean, it has to be a statistic to some degree, maybe it's a low number, but I wonder how many people forget that they had, let's say an estate plan, like dating 30 years ago, right? Because, you know, people get divorced in their gray years too. A lot of people don't realize it. That's a it's actually a big, big number of people that get divorced in their gray years. And they forget because let's say they do the, quote, unquote, amicable divorce on their own and they forget to change those documents. And then at La Pobre se Muere. And, you know, the husband she hated for the last 10 years of her life now inherits everything she had because she forgot to change it to her sister or her kid or whatever.
Right. Or a lot of times, you know, what happens is immediately, it's usually put in the settlement agreement a lot of times as to what happens to the documents, right? So you don't follow up and you don't know, and you end up with nothing. So now you have no will or no, you know, it could go both ways. And so yes, you need it's a lot of moving parts. It's starting life at that moment, again, you know, redoing your trust, your wills, your life insurance policies, if you have them, everything, titles to properties, cars. I mean, it's just a lot to do.
Accounts, your cell phone account.
You're going to go back to your maiden name.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a whole other slew, which. It's very complex, but you know what? The truth is, you do it once, you do all the paperwork, you do it as soon as you're done, and it's boom. You only have a really bad two months, and then you know everything's updated. So for everything, it's just going through it.
Yeah, especially if you've been together for a significant amount of time, right? If you got divorced in the first two, three, four, five years, you probably don't have very deep roots, let's say. But if you've been married 15, 20, 25 years, I mean, we're talking sometimes your lives blend to the point where you really can't see a beginning or an end. And everything from sharing passwords and toothbrushes to, you know, the bigger stuff, it's hard to separate all of that. And you lose sight of, you know, all of those little things and it can become overwhelming.
It's so many details and you know, a couple of cases that I've heard now twice, two times recently is so you get divorced or can you never update your homestead so it's yours and you remarry and you never like look into this and now you've left your kids. because you changed it to the new spouse, because you remarried, and he gets it because it's homesteading, your kids are off. So it's very, there's a lot of things that you should probably look into just because, you know, for the benefit of your heirs, your own heirs, you know? And there's ways to do things in a very fair and positive way for your spouse, your second spouse and third spouse, whatever the case may be. But the two cases that I'm talking about, they didn't know. They just didn't know to follow up or to change anything. So it wasn't like, you know, they planned it. So now it's, oops, oops, it is. And it's, you know, it's just, it's just going over everything.
Oops, it's bad. Those oops, let me tell you, they get people in all kinds of trouble. Yeah, they do.
So to avoid that, you need to, you know, come find me and I will give you my services and hopefully. Can you take care of all those oops?
Yeah, exactly. And plan accordingly. Wow. I've had a lot of different professionals on the show and more than often we talk on the divorce process. Not every person that I have on the show is directly related, let's say, to the divorce process, such as you or a collaborative attorney or a family law attorney, etc. But you can see how there are so many different services that you might need that could be inserted. It could be needed in the divorce process to make, you know, like you said, all those issues go away or at least address them to a certain degree so that you can get past the divorce process. Yeah, it's a difficult time. It really is a difficult time. And I remember when we first met, we each talked about our stories. And it's interesting how the reason that a lot of these services, like the one that you offer, like the one that I offer, which is a specialty, came about because of our own experiences, because we realized that it was It was, let's call it an underserved niche, right? It was something that was highly overlooked across the board. And then you found a lot of people that were grieving this loss because at the end of the day, that's what this is. Divorce is a loss. It's a form of loss, which is why it feels so gruesome, let's say, right? It's a very painful process. I'm sure that there are people who are very happy to exit a relationship. Of course, we're not talking about everyone in particular, but we're generalizing here. For the most part, I would say it's a very difficult and very heavy process. And a lot of people actually don't even recover from that. I was talking to somebody the other day who mentioned that his brother, I think it's been something like I think it's been close to a decade, let's say that, that they got a divorce and he hasn't been able to recover from that emotionally. And you would think, well, he's a dude and you know, whatever. No, he actually got into his feelings to the point where I, you know, I may have overstepped a boundary when I said, I don't think you realize that, but your family member is depressed. There is, there are clear signs of depression there. And I'm not a doctor to, you know, to diagnose him, but I would say go get that checked, you know, so maybe you want to encourage him to go find a therapist, you know, to help him sort that out and see if, you know, he can get out of that because I can't, can you imagine living the rest of your life? None of this guy is probably in his forties. Wow. And it's, it's hard. He has the rest, another half, you know, another 40 years, hopefully to go. You really want to live like that? Yeah.
No one, you know, it's that's why therapy is so important, but it's being able to recognize it. Right. Yeah. The right people around you or to be open to it. Yeah. And because it is divorce is a very, very it's a very hard situation. I mean, everything you knew up until that point is over. So, yeah, it's it's hard picking up the pieces and, you know, everybody's different.
So and you said something that I just remembered, too, which was about, you know, if this was your third time, your second, your third time, even if it's your second or third time, which, by the way, I think it's crazy that it's like it's something like 50 percent of first marriages and in divorce, that percentage actually increases with second divorces and increases again for third divorces. I guess for people who are doing it. Yeah, second or third. I guess for people who've done it once already, they're like, it's really not that big or I already lived through and I survived. I could do it again, you know?
Or you're also like, you know what? I'm not going to deal with this period.
Yeah. Yeah. You've gotten a little desensitized right to that process. And you're like, screw it. I'm not going to deal with this a second or third time. But yeah. And you know what? You're just like when you have children. Now, I'm not a mom. I'm not a natural mom, meaning I don't have my own kids. But I hear from all moms that their first, second, and third pregnancies are different. Like children are different. I have four stepkids and all four of them are different from each other. The way they look, the things that they like, the things that they eat. They couldn't be more different from each other if they tried. Like if they were from four different families, it's incredible. So imagine then how different your first and second divorce could be from even your third divorce. So don't think that you're a pro at it. I don't want people to be like, well, I did it the first time. It was horrible. I could do it the second time without any help. No, that's not the case. It could be very different. And you don't know who you're dealing with the second time or the third time.
You know, you may or may not have children, but you have other issues or you may have another child. You know, it's it's it's again, it's you still need. The same support, the same guidance. You don't know who you're with, right?
Yeah. You may have started a business with your second spouse, let's say. And now you're talking about something entirely different because divvying up, you know, the business assets and determining who's going to maintain, you know, control or certain interests in the company, those things can get a little dicey. So again, as you said, when we first started this conversation, every divorce is different.
Yes. It's true. Whether it's the first, the second, the third, it doesn't matter. Just don't get advice from your from your neighbor.
And laws change. Laws change. I think you also brought that up earlier. Laws do change. They may be in your favor. They may open up opportunities for you that you thought you didn't have or that your front door neighbor, when she got a divorce 40 years ago, it didn't apply to her. So yes. Just make sure that you do your research, that you reach out to people like Michelle. I talk about it in every podcast. Please do your research, do your homework. It would behoove you to hire the right professional. It'll make all the difference in the world, whether you're buying a house, getting a divorce, setting up an account, or getting your teeth cleaned. I think we can all agree that if you hire the wrong person versus hiring the right person, there is a vast difference there in the kind of experience you're going to have. And especially with something so delicate, you want to be sure you know what to do. You have the right foundation, you have the right answers to the questions that you have, and you get a good start so that you can make that process a lot easier than you thought it could be. Yes, I agree. So true. Thanks, Michelle, so much for being with me today. I don't know if you have any parting words. Now would be the time. If not, it was so great to see you and I hope to have you back.
It was great to have being here on your show and seeing you again. Hopefully we'll get together soon. And for everyone, you know, it's just very important. And if you just need to reach out and you have a simple question, please, by all means, you know, contact me if you have a question, you know, that I can answer that I can. redirect you to the right person or, you know, I can help you, please.
I was just about to say you do have a website. It's www.thedivorcebroker.com. So get to know Michelle, visit her website. I promise you won't regret it. It's www.thedivorcebroker.com.
Yes. Thank you. Thanks, Michelle. Bye.
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